Is the Carrier too weak on defense?

[Master Zen]

Tom Clancy had a "thing" for missiles. Blasted some carriers in Red Storm Rising, and also in Sum of All Fears. The threat is real, IMO.

Still, the big mistake was to have crappy AEGIS cruisers in Civ3, unlike Civ2. Should've given them an ability to defend with missiles like a SAM Missile Battery.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Pap1723
Hey guys, read a lot of the stuff posted here. Most of it was a very interesting read, but read some of the books by Tom Clancy to see what missiles can do to aircraft carriers. Yes they have all of these great defenses, but at the same time, the missiles that are being fired at them are designed to hit the ship. Any naval commander is terrified at the thought of a concentrated attack on a carrier because they are succeptible to attack. In civ terms, maybe 8 is a little low, put it at 10 or so, but without the AEGIS ships escorting the carriers and without planes constantly flying CAP's (Combat Air Patrols), the carriers do not have much ability. In civ, just designate your planes to have air superiority and they will defend like they should.

Pap

hi ,

just look at the falklands war , ....... "exocet" the name stands even today for fear in every ones brains , ......

lets say our little shortranged cruise missile is an exocet , .... with a power of 16 ,.... well the carrier has no chance , ...... thats at least why the carrier should have 16 as defense , ....

it works great with a defense of 32 also , .... you should see the AI trying to sink them with cruise missiles that are aboard nuclear subs and have a range of 8 , .....

thanks Soren

have a nice day

[ottok]

I WANT HEAR THAT TRUTH THAT ISREAL IS NOT LOT A MORE THAN 53. NATION AT USA-says one SADDAM HATER!

[Panag]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Tom Clancy had a "thing" for missiles. Blasted some carriers in Red Storm Rising, and also in Sum of All Fears. The threat is real, IMO.

Still, the big mistake was to have crappy AEGIS cruisers in Civ3, unlike Civ2. Should've given them an ability to defend with missiles like a SAM Missile Battery.

hi ,

thats an option we need , the flag ; "has double defense against airrunits" , .....

but we have been asking since the start , .....

Soren , when you have the time , .....
thanks in advance

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by ottok
I WANT HEAR THAT TRUTH THAT ISREAL IS NOT LOT A MORE THAN 53. NATION AT USA-says one SADDAM HATER!

hi ,

ottok , can you post thread related posts only , thank you , ....

have a nice day

[TheStinger]

Mings gonna bin him soon i think

[Ming]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Mings gonna bin him soon i think

Yep... but just passing through... ottok has already been suspended

[Master Zen]

Hehe...our friend ottock lately had been on an anti-Israel crusade on various threads. Guess Feb.15 is still on his mind.

Sometimes his posts are hilarious though, I'll miss the guy...

[Mad Bomber]

master Zen:

It is theoretically possible to have an extra 30 aircraft stowed on a Nimitz Class Carrier. However it would mean offloading all support planes except for the E2C's. THis means that all Seahawk helos, COD's, and S-3 Vikings would go. This would strip the Carrier of most of its ASW protection which a Captain or Admiral would not do unless it was a dire emergency.

In Debt of Honor, Tom Clancy did strip the John Stennis of the support planes in order to put an additional 20-30 F-18's aboard, but the Stennis was also supported by F-22's flying out of Alaska.
He also dealt with the sub threat by using old boomers to perform ASW ahead of the task force.... Highly theatrical, but not terribly realistic.

When did Clancy have carriers hit in Sum of All Fears? In debt of Honor he had Stennis and Enterprise hit by torpedos not missles.

[Mad Bomber]

Dissident:

If you remember, A US Carrier hit a Turkish destroyer a while back with a sea sparrow, the Destroyer didn't sink but was pretty bad off, Turks got really pissed too, but we made reparations and we remained allies. IIRC it was the USS Independence, but not 100% sure.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
master Zen:

It is theoretically possible to have an extra 30 aircraft stowed on a Nimitz Class Carrier. However it would mean offloading all support planes except for the E2C's. THis means that all Seahawk helos, COD's, and S-3 Vikings would go. This would strip the Carrier of most of its ASW protection which a Captain or Admiral would not do unless it was a dire emergency.

Thank you MB, you just proved my point against panag . I had said that adding 30 more aircraft would have resulted in sacrificing the overall capability of the wing.

When did Clancy have carriers hit in Sum of All Fears? In debt of Honor he had Stennis and Enterprise hit by torpedos not missles.

Hehe...I only saw the movie (but I did read RSR like 6 times at least... )

[Deathwalker]

During WW2, a lone british carrier was found by two German battleships of the cost of Norway.
The carrier did not stand a chance, so I think the defece value is fine, u just need to have escorts stacked with it

[The Mad Monk]

My problem is not the defense of carriers so much as the attack value -- it should be raised to at least 4, or dropped to 0 so it can't attack at all.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Master Zen


Thank you MB, you just proved my point against panag . I had said that adding 30 more aircraft would have resulted in sacrificing the overall capability of the wing.



Hehe...I only saw the movie (but I did read RSR like 6 times at least... )

hi ,

you cant compare a movie with the real world , .....µ

if one would care to view the pics in theis thread they would see the planes in front , the support planes and they would find the helo , ........

one would also read something about a search and rescue with "extra" planes and helo being aboard for a longer time , .....

have a nice day

[Panag]

CARRIER defense

hi ,

some of the main defense weapons systems on carriers , ....

have a nice day



MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS)
The MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS - pronounced "sea-whiz") is a fast-reaction, rapid-fire 20-millimeter gun system that provides US Navy ships with a terminal defense against anti-ship missiles that have penetrated other fleet defenses. Designed to engage anti-ship cruise missiles and fixed-wing aircraft at short range, Phalanx automatically engages functions usually performed by separate, independent systems such as search, detection, threat evaluation, acquisition, track, firing, target destruction, kill assessment and cease fire. Phalanx underwent operational tests and evaluation onboard USS Bigelow in 1977, and exceeded maintenance and reliability specifications. Phalanx production started in 1978 with orders for 23 USN and 14 Foreign Military Sales (FMS) systems.
Phalanx is a point-defense, total-weapon system consisting of two 20mm gun mounts that provide a terminal defense against incoming air targets. CIWS, without assistance from other shipboard systems, will automatically engage incoming anti-ship missiles and high-speed, low-level aircraft that have penetrated the ship primary defense envelope. As a unitized system, CIWS automatically performs search, detecting, tracking, threat evaluation, firing, and kill assessments of targets while providing for manual override. Each gun mount houses a fire control assembly and a gun subsystem. The fire control assembly is composed of a search radar for surveillance and detection of hostile targets and a track radar for aiming the gun while tracking a target. The unique closed-loop fire control system that tracks both the incoming target and the stream of outgoing projectiles gives CIWS the capability to correct its aim to hit fast-moving targets, including ASMs.

The gun subsystem employs a gatling gun consisting of a rotating cluster of six barrels. The gatling gun fires a 20mm subcaliber sabot projectile using a heavy-metal (either tungsten or depleted uranium) 15mm penetrator surrounded by a plastic sabot and a light-weight metal pusher. The gatling gun fires 20mm ammunition at either 3,000 or 4,500 rounds-per-minute with a burst length of continuous, 60, or 100 rounds.

CIWS has been a mainstay self defense system aboard nearly every class of ship since the late 70’s. It was originally designed to defeat low altitude antiship cruise missiles (ASCMs) and was called the block 0. As antiship cruise missiles became more complex in maneuvers and ability to be detected, and warfare areas moved from open ocean to littoral environments, CIWS has evolved to meet the threat.

Block 1 incorporated a new search antenna to detect high altitude missiles, improved search sensitivity, increased the ammunition available for firing by 50 percent, a pneumatic gun drive which increased the firing rate to 4500 rounds per minute, and started using tungsten ammunition as well as depleted uranium. Block I improvements provide increased elevation coverage, larger magazine space for increased round capacity, a variable and higher gun fire rate, and improved radar and processing capabilities.

Block 1A incorporated a new High Order Language Computer (HOLC) to provide more processing power over the obsolete general purpose digital computer, improved fire control algorithms to counter maneuvering targets, search multiple weapons coordination to better manage engagements, and an end-to-end testing function to better determine system functionality.

Block 1B Phalanx Surface Mode (PSUM) incorporates a side mounted Forward Looking Infrared Radar (FLIR) which enables CIWS to engage low slow or hovering aircraft and surface craft. Additionally, the FLIR assists the radar in engaging some ASCM’s bringing a greater chance of ship survivability. Block 1B uses a thermal imager Automatic Acquisition Video Tracker (AAVT) and stablilization system that provide surface mode and electro-optic (EO) angle track. These Block 1B enhancements will allow day/night detection capability and enable the CIWS to engage small surface targets, slow-moving air targets, and helicopters.
Baseline 2C improvements provide an integrated multi-weapon operations capability. During integrated operations, the command system controls CIWS sensors, target reports, mode employment, and doctrine. The sensors are utilized to provide 360 degree search and track coverage, while providing track data to, and receiving designations from, the Command system. This CIWS installation includes a conversion kit for each weapon group to facilitate ease and safety of maintenance; the "maintenance enclosure" kit installs the below-deck equipment for a gun mount in a prefabricated enclosure with the mount located above it.


note ; the later models , and almost all are upgraded now have at least 1550 rounds , some models have even 2998 rounds , ......