OpenCiv3 Discussion thread

[VetLegion]

And another thing that is bugging me...

The scope
Who are we really in civ? A god? A king?
I think a player is a dynasty or something

I will also post a question about this in strategy section, it really intrigues me.

[korn469]

ok so have a spherical aproximation map

then have a rectangle hex map how does 48 by 96 sound for the default size of the map?

as for the question of who the player is

in civ/civ2 i think the player is the spirit of your civilization

this is not a god and its not a government or a dynasty

i am a citizen of the US...when i think back about my history i consider the colonies and the various states under the articles of confederation part of of my history, i even consider the colonies as part of the USA i see the UK as the civilization we broke away from and i see the US as a mixture of almost every civilization on earth but i don't consider the UK as part of the US civ

maybe that helps some

The OpenCiv3 website
korn469
[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited March 12, 2000).]

[Slingshot]

This thread should be a directory!

We have so many good ideas, that it makes sense to be able to split them into separate threads. Let future Civ programmers drool, because an OpenCiv thread could really push the envelope!

Maybe our thread moderator could start up an OpenCiv thread. If he won't do it, I would be happy to help.

RE: A globe world. It is definitely possible to make a globe with triangles inscribed on the surface. All triangles would be the same size!

Six triangles make a hexagon. The center of each hexagon can easily be given a polar coordinate array. If you want elevation, it is a 3D array. If you want to specify the type of tile, it becomes a 4D array.

[JacobH]

quote: Let's have an OpenCiv v0.01 before we make a v3.0.

I fully agree with that. Once we have a public binary for download, people will only be disappointed if they think it will be more cool than Civ II because of the numbers. It could turn out to be, but a development version will not have all of the intended features, and they will likely be buggy to begin with. Initially the game is going to be primitive no matter how many good ideas we come up with.

quote: I don't know how well you people program, but I would think making a spherical world is pretty complicated compared to the ordinary Civ style map.

It will be easier to make a Civ style map. An isometric view and hexagons will not be a problem. If it should be a spherical world with a 3d look, we are going to need more programmers (of course, we will need more people in any event). Currently, I believe only me and Victor are working on the programming part. There is not too much we can do until we get a few more facts established about how the game should be, but I have started to make a few classes that are not dependent on how the game will be like.

quote: Could some of you that can program please tell me how much is changeable when the game is complete?

If we take care in the design of the program, it should not be too problematic to change it later. I will begin working on a few abstract base classes once there is a more clear description of how the game will be like.

Jacob Hammeken
[This message has been edited by JacobH (edited March 13, 2000).]

[Slax]

Will your hexes be on an angle? Civ uses diamonds because they look like a grid system given perspective. That way terrain and units have perspective. I think hexes have not been used because when tilted away from the viewer to get perspective, movement, if using the keyboard, looks complicated.

I've been programming a game as a hobby, it uses terrain in hexes with no perspective, and it looks pretty flat.

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Light the fuse!

[This message has been edited by Slax (edited March 13, 2000).]

[JacobH]

quote: I think hexes have not been used because when tilted away from the viewer to get perspective, movement, if using the keyboard, looks complicated.

You certainly seem to have a point. I made some test-graphics, and when looking at it, this seemed to be the case.
Perhaps we should decide on another shape?

Jacob Hammeken

[VetLegion]

JacobH
I will also be doing some programming. I have good amount of expirience with basic, pascal, and c. However c++ is not my strongpoint, and I have done virtually no work on object oriented programs. I am familiar with the concept, and I am planning to speed up on learning c++.

Is it ok to email you to exchange some thoughts?

[pris]

A 3d map would take at least 6 person months so I'd strongly recommend getting the core work done first.

If you don't mind starting with someone elses code you should think about doing a Windows port of FreeCiv. If you take this approach you should be able to get a multiplayer Civ clone running on Windows in a short time. This would be a good foundation for all the interesting stuff we've been talking about.

The alternative is to write it from scratch; just to give you an idea of how much work this would take FreeCiv is over 79,000 lines of C code.

My time is limited but I'll be happy to help people with C/C++ programming.

[JacobH]

quote: I will also be doing some programming. I have good amount of expirience with basic, pascal, and c. ... Is it ok to email you to exchange some thoughts?

Yes, please do, and you may perhaps also be interested in joining the mailinglist. There are a few issues I think needs to be discussed. I will send you an email as well and describe what has been discussed and what has been done so far.

Jacob Hammeken

[JacobH]

quote: The alternative is to write it from scratch; just to give you an idea of how much work this would take FreeCiv is over 79,000 lines of C code.

We do not have to start entirely from scratch even if we do not use the FreeCiv code. There are quite a lot of free C and C++ libraries on the Net. Personally, I would prefer not to base the game on the FreeCiv code, although we could possibly use certain parts of it.

Jacob Hammeken

[Victor Galis]

I hope there are more people who know what they are doing... Because my own programming skills are somewhat basic, but my plan was to do a the combat system (basically a lot of variables passed in, and a bunch of random number generators). I haven't had any experience with graphical programs or some of the more advanced concepts. My thought is we should begin deciding somethings now like how to handle combat, not what the units are, but rather what the functions that established what happened when two units fought a standard engagement, and returned results.

I would go with a 3D looking hex map. (not reall 3D, just looks that way somehow.) Could someone tell me where the picture of a forest tile was? The map in terms of code should be a flat cylindrical map (the poles impassable). The terrain would look like the SMAC one in terms of elevation and such with a Civ2-like tileset.

I think things like the time frame are a little less relevant right now, being one of those things that is easy to change later on, while the type of map may be a little harder to mess with.

[The Joker]

I think we should focus on making this game playable before we give it a spherical world or other things. Let's have an OpenCiv v0.01 before we make a v3.0.

I don't know how well you people program, but I would think making a spherical world is pretty complicated compared to the ordinary Civ style map. But I completely agree that it should have a hexagon map. It is superior to the squares in every way.

I would like a timespan that reached some time into the future, like 2150 or so. This would make the ascent to Alpha happend at a realistic stage.

Could some of you that can program please tell me how much is changeable when the game is complete? Is it possible to change to a spherical world when other game features are already in place? If so we could have the game evolve slowly.

How about sending the code (when done) out to everyone who want to see it. They could then change it as they liked, and then send it back to us (or someone else who is in charge of the project). This would mean that everybody that has a good suggestion can get their idea into the game, making the quality much higher than if it's just the 6 of us doing everything. I think that's how Linux was made, and that turned out good.

Perhabs we could get Dan or Mark to advertise for us by making an OpenCiv3 news on the Civ3 site.

BTW I am getting loads of emails containing stuff I do not understand. I hope I am not supposed to understand it as it is only to the programmers.

[heardie]

pris can i hav your e-mail to add it to the mailing list

[pris]

Nothing beats the feeling of create a whole game yourself but it really is a LOT of work.

Just so you know what you're getting into he's a list of FreeCiv features that you're going to miss out on;

- Generally comparable with Civilization I & II.
- Up to 14 players! Will soon have more.
- Artificial Intelligence (AI)
- Internet & LAN multiplayer (TCP/IP)
- Support for a great number of platforms see requirements .
- Premade maps & scenarios!
- 47 units and 44 nations.
- Modpack support!
- Internationalization (i18n)

I'd be amazed if you can find a library on the net to match that feature list.

Which everway approach you choose good luck & as I mentioned earlier I'll be happy to help with specific C/C++ questions. Just post it on the message board.

[This message has been edited by pris (edited March 14, 2000).]

[The Joker]

I thnk as FreeCiv has come so far we could benefit from using some of their code in stead of just writing it from scratch. Some of the basic things that are not gonna be revolutionary in any way could be copyed from FreeCiv. This would give us time to focus on the important parts of the game.

Victor:
Didn't you post an advanced combat model back at the Firaxis Forum? I remember someone did, and it was really great. If it was you could you please post it here or as an email so we could check it out.

I guess now it's time to figure out the basic concepts of the game...