The Economy

[orange]

quote: Communism is where the government owns and governs EVERYTHING.

No. Replace "Communism" with "Stalinism" and then I agree.

Taken from a site on Marxism and Communism -
Communism in theory stands for total public ownership and rejects private property and personal profit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In practice, however, the state determines how strictly the doctrine is applied in any particular country.
^
The above is where Stalinism kicks in...this system is meant to lead to true Communism, where society works for the good of the commune...but this has not happened yet. Stalinism remains, or degenerates to a dictatorship because of the easy corruption and lack of trust among people.

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[This message has been edited by orange (edited December 19, 2000).]

[Pangaea]

they need like manufacturing types.... like if a city is near mines and such, it would be a minning city, near major roads, maybe a car making city (Detroit?), technologically advanced city (silicon valley)

and all cities shouldn't become as good as the tech level you are at....
like parts of china (Beijing) are very advanced, with cell phones, computers and TV's, and then parts of it are vast farmlands, with nomads still roaming the lands and living in tents.

The tech level of each city should be dependant on what improvements are in it, and the natural geographical influences nearby

and having cities produce specialty goods, and trading them to other civilixations would be great. Such as exporting cars, or importing high tech electronics from Japan....

or open up oppurtunities for foreign investment...

in the CivII version, trading silver, silk, dye or whatever only really provides a quick source of income, but doesn't really benefit everyone that well

too late to post anything of meaning, sorry for the gramatical/spelling errors need a coffee or something

[orange]

It's ok Pang

Actually you have some good ideas. I like the idea of having a breadbasket for your nation...but I assume they will set this up more in the city layout then in economy.

I'm also hoping certain cities prosper while others fail...especially when dealing with trade.

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[airdrik]

Actually you can't include Socialism as an option, but Direct Democracy+Communism/Stallinism=Socialism.

[orange]

Hmmmm...I'm not sure I follow.

You combined two government types. I don't think it's possible to have a democratic stalinistic government. I'm thinking people elect a dictator who rules for life and has full control over everything?

If you meant Communism/Stalinism as an economy choice...how can Stalinism be an economy?

Could you clarify?

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[orange]

*bump*

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[Grumbold]

I think an expanded SMAC system which allows shifting economic emphasis between different criteria would be good. It will allow us to slowly diverge from the historical paths of despotism, monarchy, democracy etc toward new paths balancing social, economic and scientific growth in our own ways.

[airdrik]

Well, since Socialism is Communism where everyone owns and runs everything, and Direct Democracy is where everyone decides on everything in the government, then if you combine Direct Democracy with Communism, then you get Socialism.

BTW, could you describe the differences in government between Stalanism and other governments? Because I still don't quite get how you are saying it works.
[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited December 24, 2000).]

[orange]

I don't see how you are combining two forms of government to get an economic style

Communism (government/economy) = rule by none. Everyone works for the good of the commune and everyone is given equal amounts of the total yield. There is no reward for working hard, there is no penalty for working poorly. There is no upperclass, there is no lowerclass...there is just one straight middle class.

Socialism (economy) = The state has full power to redistribute wealth to the people. The goal is similar to that of Communism - no social classes.

Two different ways of going about the same thing.

Stalinism (Government) - One man in a one party system is given complete power of the people. This form of government is in essence a beneveloent dictatorship...but it is meant to bring forth true Communism (Government/Economy)

So what I was saying in my first post is that Communist governments should only be allowed with a communist economy (because technically one cannot exist without the other)

Examples of government/economy pairings...
Government________________Economy________________Example
Democratic Republic______/Moderate Capitalism = United States
Stalinism______________/Socialism___________= Former USSR
Despotism______________/Strict Socialism____= Nazi Germany
Republic_______________/Strict Socialism____= India
Republic_______________/Modified Socialism__= Modern China
Stalinism______________/Socialism___________= Mao's China
Democratic Republic____/Socialism___________= Modern Russia
Constitutional Monarchy/Modified Capitalism = England

(I think those are all fairly accurate...please point out any errors that I'm sure I've made )

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[This message has been edited by orange (edited December 24, 2000).]

[timfry]

Orange,

I believe that the government structure of true Communism is close to that of a Republic. While the government is not supposed to be obtrusive it does make decisions. Those decisions are from a body that is elected by the people through a series of elections.

[orange]

hmmm...I was always under the impression that true Marxist Communism was the asbence of government in all forms...because there would be no need for one. I'll have to reresearch (was that proper?) the subject...

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[Nikolai]

quote: Originally posted by timfry on 12-24-2000 06:56 PM I believe that the government structure of true Communism is close to that of a Republic. While the government is not supposed to be obtrusive it does make decisions. Those decisions are from a body that is elected by the people through a series of elections.

In a search on www.britannica.com , I found this:

quote: classless society in Marxist thought, the ultimate condition of social organization, expected to occur when true communism is achieved. According to Karl Marx, the state represents the dominant class in society, with the primary function of repressing other classes. After the class struggle has resulted in the victory of the proletariat and the establishing of a socialist society, however, there will be no further need for such a repressive institution; theoretically the state then is expected to "wither away."

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[orange]

Yah, that's what I was always taught Perhaps the government form "Marxism" or "Marxist Socialism"?

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[eNo]

I agree with orange and Nikolai.

Communism doesn't have a ruling class/government so switching the leadership to communism would basically end the game.

[orange]

and that's where the conflict begins!

See we get some who argue that Marxism can be implemented, and that it should be an allowable government/economy and others say that it "won't work" so we shouldn't allow it as a government.

Also consider this...

quote: * Is it possible to allow a Communist government with a Capitalist economy, or a Democratic government with a Communistic economy?

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