Choose your peaceful great leaders

[Vlad Antlerkov]

Speaking of architects, how about Frank Lloyd Wright as another American peaceful GL? Or I.M. Pei (Chinese-born, American resident)? Or Claudius Appius (the guy who designed the Appian Way)?

[Traelin]

Americans:

Henry Ford
Benjamin Franklin
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney (my relative!)
Alexander Graham Bell
Martin Luther King
Harriet Tubman
Susan B. Anthony
Eleanor Roosevelt
Henry Kissinger

[Destroyer]

Originally posted by Traelin
Americans:

Alexander Graham Bell?

Erm not quite (note that I am now British for the puposes of this debate).

[Vercingetorix]

If we are including architects and authors, what about musical-folk?


Russia:

Tchaikovsky
Rachmaninoff


Germany:

Bach
Brahms
Beethoven
Mozart (kind of)
Schubert
Mendelssohn


France:

Ravel


America:

Gershwin


etc, etc.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by Destroyer


Erm not quite (note that I am now British for the puposes of this debate).

Actually I thought he was Scottish, but moved to Boston and became an American citizen. Am I wrong?

EDIT: Yeah, he became an American citizen.

"In 1882, Graham was granted American citizenship."

http://www.top-biography.com/9022-Graham%20Bell/life1.htm

[Destroyer]

Bloody Jocks! (returns to English mode)...

[ducki]

Originally posted by Traelin
Americans:

Henry Ford
Benjamin Franklin
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney (my relative!)
Alexander Graham Bell
Martin Luther King
Harriet Tubman
Susan B. Anthony
Eleanor Roosevelt
Henry Kissinger

Listing Kissinger as a "peaceful" leader is about the funniest thing I've read in weeks.

No offense intended, I just find it hilarious.
Kissinger != peaceful

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by ducki


Listing Kissinger as a "peaceful" leader is about the funniest thing I've read in weeks.

No offense intended, I just find it hilarious.
Kissinger != peaceful

Yah. On the same list as Martin Luther King? No chance. This is the same Kissinger who was in power when Cambodia was bombed secretly- who 'coincidentally' was in Indonesia just before they invaded and illegally occupied East Timor. Who was in office when Pinochet's coup took place, well I could go on, but you get the drift. The man's a war criminal- and should be in the Hague along with Milosevic as a net contributor to the civilian dead of the 20th Century.

Linus Pauling or Noam Chomsky would be a better candidate. Jesse James or Al Capone would be more morally acceptable candidates. At least Capone had only a few city blocks to run...

[Chemical Ollie]

Zulu (yes, even they have peaceful leaders):

Nelson Mandela
Lebo M (who wrote the Zulu songs for the musical The Lion King.)

India:

Sidharta Guatama (better known as Buddha)

China:

Confusius

[Traelin]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Yah. On the same list as Martin Luther King? No chance. This is the same Kissinger who was in power when Cambodia was bombed secretly- who 'coincidentally' was in Indonesia just before they invaded and illegally occupied East Timor. Who was in office when Pinochet's coup took place, well I could go on, but you get the drift. The man's a war criminal- and should be in the Hague along with Milosevic as a net contributor to the civilian dead of the 20th Century.

Linus Pauling or Noam Chomsky would be a better candidate. Jesse James or Al Capone would be more morally acceptable candidates. At least Capone had only a few city blocks to run...

I was just listing names of diplomats/activists/inventors off the top of my head. I'm not arguing for or against Kissinger. However, to unilaterally blame him for the doings of the Nixon admin. is a bit of a stretch. Especially since we all know Kissinger rarely concurred with Nixon. But that's OT. There are others that could be listed as well.

Americans

-- Robert Frost
-- Edgar Allan Poe

British

-- Alfred, Lord Tennyson
-- Sir Isaac Newton
-- William Shakespeare

Spanish

-- A bit of a stretch, but Chris Columbus for the Spanish (even though he was Italian)
-- Juan Ponce de Leon for the Spanish
-- Pablo Picasso

French

-- Samuel de Champlain
-- de la Salle (don't remember his first name)

Greeks

-- Chares

And since we have certain GWs associated with peaceful leaders, we should give some kind of bonus to the Civ that builds the wonder if the person was from that Civ.
(No, Magellan doesn't count, he was Portuguese I think).

Here's the list of GWs that I can think of off the top of my head that were associated with specific peaceful leaders, and that have Civs in Civ III:

-- Universal Suffrage (originally Women's Suffrage, associated with Susan B. Anthony)
-- Shakespeare's Theatre (British, associated with William Shakespeare)
-- Colossus of Rhodes (Greeks, associated with Chares)
-- Smith's Trading Company (British, associated with Adam Smith)
-- Newton's University (British, associated with Sir Isaac Newton)

Now keep in mind I'm just brainstorming. It would probably be unbalancing to give these Civs bonuses for building their GWs, especially since not all Wonders can be directly linked to one person as the inventor/builder/architect. And not all Civs have a specific GW associated with them. But oh well, it was just a random thought on my part.

[georges bonbon]

We Belgians do not have very great leaders in our history.

Sniff....

[Nym]

Re: Choose your peaceful great leaders

Originally posted by Destroyer
The BBCs survey of the greatest ever british people has been reduced to the 10 best. These could all be used in Civ3. But who would other countries use?

English:
Isambard Kingdom Brunel
Winston Churchill
Oliver Cromwell
Charles Darwin
Diana, Princess of Wales ???
Queen Elizabeth I
John Lennon
Horatio Nelson
Isaac Newton
William Shakespeare

Those are not all peaceful great leaders.

For France I would say, for warmongerer great leaders:

• all the napoleonic field marshals : Lannes, Murat, Berthier, Davout, Ney, Augereau, Brune, Grouchy, Masséna, Oudinot, Soult...
• Du Guesclin
• Condé
• Hoche
• Foch
• Turenne

and for peaceful great leaders:

• Louis Pasteur
• Jean-Baptiste Lully
• Paul Cézanne
• Paul Gauguin
• Maurice Ravel
• Jean Monnet
• René Descartes
• Victor Hugo
• Denis Diderot
• Voltaire
• Molière

[alva]

Originally posted by georges bonbon
We Belgians do not have very great leaders in our history.

Sniff....

!!!!!!!!!what!!!!!!!!!

Rubens,
Daens,
Brel,
Vercincetorix,
Mercator,
Consience,
Karel de Grote(?)
Mercx(hmm)
Eddy Wally

not all peacefull, but hey , we are a very small country

For any other Belgians around here, please do not mention Boudewijn

[Nym]

Originally posted by alva848


!!!!!!!!!what!!!!!!!!!

Rubens,
Daens,
Brel,
Vercincetorix,
Mercator,
Consience,
Karel de Grote(?)
Mercx(hmm)
Eddy Wally

not all peacefull, but hey , we are a very small country

For any other Belgians around here, please do not mention Boudewijn

Well, I do not think Vercincetorix can be considered to be Belgian (nor French); belgian and french nations did not exist at that time.

[ruby_maser]

peaceful leaders?

Gandhi was a peaceful "leader". Some of these people being mentioned could only be considered peaceful because they had nothing to do with the arena of war.

I like to think Princess Di would have made a great warmonger had she been given some sort of military command