Expectations for Monarch level?

[planetfall]

Just started first Monarch level game.


I expected:
-- AI to out expand,
-- more problems keeping up with techs,
-- barbarian battles more difficult.

What I did not expect:
-- harder to maintain happiness
-- much harder to keep up with productivity.

Included mini map.
Civs:

  China   {turquoise} 

  India   {purple}

  Rome    {rust}

  Germany {blue}

  France  {in black area}

  Russia  {in black area}

  Greece  {in black area}

Comment-- since Rome was close and smaller, was going to try taking NE city, but my SSW city flipped to Indian and 2 settlers pairs {one from China, one from Rome} are in S of continent. By trading techs fairly close in techs, but behind in demographics. Military all average. No trade route to China. Just at started Middle Ages. About tied with India in score behind China. It is early, 560ad.

Demographics--

Approval	76%	        1

Pollution	0	        1

Annual income	4/capita	3

Mfg Goods	109 megatons	3

Military	5 yrs	        3

Disease	        3%	        4

Literacy	36%	        4

Land Area	29000 sq.miles	5

Life expectancy	28yrs	        5

population	2580000	        5

Family size	1	        6

productivity	231	        6

GNP	        125 million     7

Concerns--
1. last in productivity. {I am monarchy, rest of known are republic.}
2. way behind in land area,
3. unable to get any GW. Attempting to get Smith's, but ...

Questions--
1. Is this a typical Monarch level game?

2. When would you plan to invade Rome: a) after knights?, b) after cavalry? or c) other time.

3. Not panicing, but what would you recommend for my primary goals for:
A-- Middle Ages Era
B-- Industrial Era

Thanks

-- PF

[dojoboy]

Its expected. Trade for, or conquer, luxuries to increase your happiness. Since India is on your continent, they're really the only one who can give you a headache. You may want to spread your hegemony to include the Indian provinces. Amphibious landings are pulled off very well by the AI, ever. Those choke points in India's territory are beneficial. You know where they're coming from. I think you're in a good position to win this game. It depends on what your goal is for victory.

[Arrian]

I would probably have attacked India a while ago. I'd probably do it now if I had a bunch of Knights. Or Rome. Either of them looks puny next to you, so I say saddle up 'n hit somebody.

By the way, when I made the jump up to Monarch, I found that civs that were strong on lower levels weren't as strong on Monarch, and vice-versa. Babylon was my old favorite on Regent, but I kept getting beaten as Babylon on Monarch. So I started playing other civs, and discovered the awesome power of Egypt, and then of Japan and China.

On Monarch, I think it's important to have an early medieval golden age. Not everyone agrees, but I find that's where the game hangs in the balance. Japan and China have knight-based UUs, whereas Egypt has a UU that is cheap and can easily be held for just the right time. Plus, all three have wonder combos which will result in pretty well-timed GAs.

In my opinion, scientific is a weak trait above Regent level. Under certain circumstances, it can still be great, but most of the time I'd rather have something else (Rel, Ind, Mil).

-Arrian

[Theseus]

PF,

Looks like a no-brainer. Stay on Monarchy for now. Make sure you have marketplaces, esp. in any 6 pop or larger town. Smother India with Knights... manage elites to get some GLs. Smother Rome with Cavs. My guess is you'll have 3-4 luxuries at that point.

At some point, probably while nailing Rome, change to Democracy, and build like crazy.

Smother China with Panzers.

Don;t worry about the slow start... as you move up levels, the point of reaching parity gets pushed back.

[Mattaba]

And could you post a SAV?

[planetfall]

Originally posted by Arrian
I would probably have attacked India a while ago. I'd probably do it now if I had a bunch of Knights. Or Rome. Either of them looks puny next to you, so I say saddle up 'n hit somebody.

Have so so military so far. 2 swords, BUT 12 archers, 4 horses, and about a dozen spears. Plan is to upgrade archers to longbow and then start campaign.

I couldn't attack earlier because I didn't have much grassland and only 1 luxury. So fighting just to settle continent and get productive cities. I had to irrigate too much just to get population. Ugh.

By the way, when I made the jump up to Monarch, I found that civs that were strong on lower levels weren't as strong on Monarch, and vice-versa.

Thanks for the warning. I figured Soren must have some hidden traps with each difficulty jump.

In my opinion, scientific is a weak trait above Regent level. Under certain circumstances, it can still be great, but most of the time I'd rather have something else (Rel, Ind, Mil).

-Arrian

I understand. Sticking with my game learning method.
A-Play one civ up to deity. I selected Germany because it has a fairly late UU and so have to get the first 2 eras down well and can't rely on an UU to pull you out of a bad position.
B- Play fewer civs so conquest is more challenging. I select 4 of the civs that have given me the most trouble recently and 2-3 random.
C- read the forum regularly.

With all the AI advantages, the "scientific" trait of Germans doesn't seem to help. Both Romans and Germans had military and I don't object to a slight military advantage.

-- PF

[planetfall]

Originally posted by Theseus
PF,

Looks like a no-brainer. Stay on Monarchy for now.

Agreed. Made mistake and saw other known civs were republics, so initially switched to republic. After 2 turns I realized this was a bad move and went back and went safer Despot-Monarch-Republic route.

Make sure you have marketplaces, esp. in any 6 pop or larger town.

Don't know if that is important yet. I have 1 luxury and difficult to get more than 1 additional in trade. I'm still working on libraries and temples.

Smother India with Knights... manage elites to get some GLs.

Interesting, better to hit approximately equivalent power than weaker Rome. Makes sense. I was going to go for Rome first for 1) safe Northern front, and 2) Rome only has iron in one tile close to an obvious landing zone. I like your idea better.

Smother Rome with Cavs. My guess is you'll have 3-4 luxuries at that point.

Three. Strange resource allocation. I have silks. Rome has gems. India has spices. China has 3, but I don't have a trade route yet so I can't recall any other than ivory.

Don;t worry about the slow start... as you move up levels, the point of reaching parity gets pushed back.

I expected a slower start and parity to come later and later as move up in difficulty levels. Thus wasn't worried, just bad timing that got both one continent empires and higher difficulty level in same game. Still don't think too big of a bite. It does make the game more suspenseful.

-- PF

[planetfall]

Originally posted by Mattaba
And could you post a SAV?

Well of course. I didn't get a copy yet as it is early in the game and I didn't think anyone would be interested.

It will be tomorrow. The minimap is 650ad. I'll bring in the save at the end of turn just before started revolution. You can decide how to play
1. delay revolution and stay despot
2. switch to republic, like other 3 civs
3. switch to monarchy as I did in minimap.

Right now I am playing monarchy until economics. If play goes badly, I will back track and try as despot thru economics. I think it made more sense to switch to monarchy now rather than waiting until after economics, but unsure.

-- PF

[Mattaba]

Originally posted by planetfall


Well of course. I didn't get a copy yet as it is early in the game and I didn't think anyone would be interested.

It will be tomorrow. The minimap is 650ad. I'll bring in the save at the end of turn just before started revolution. You can decide how to play
1. delay revolution and stay despot
2. switch to republic, like other 3 civs
3. switch to monarchy as I did in minimap.

Right now I am playing monarchy until economics. If play goes badly, I will back track and try as despot thru economics. I think it made more sense to switch to monarchy now rather than waiting until after economics, but unsure.

-- PF

Thanks, I'll check it out. I have autumn holiday in 2 days so that means civ time!!!

[vmxa1]

I wonder why you thought you would not have more problems with happiness? As you move up the less the number of contented citizen you get to start with in a city. This mean unhappiness is your companion much sooner at the higher level. Wait to you only get one happy citizen per city.
I agree with Arrian as I often do, get India. I do not allow anyone to share my land mass any longe than necessary. Once you get all the land and RR you are pretty much secure.I am not real fond of Japan,but china is a super Monarch civ. I would question going to Democray if you are going to war a bunch, I would stick with Republic. One warning, Arrian, Thesus and I seem to do a lot of warfare, so that may not be what you want.

[planetfall]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I wonder why you thought you would not have more problems with happiness? As you move up the less the number of contented citizen you get to start with in a city. This mean unhappiness is your companion much sooner at the higher level. Wait to you only get one happy citizen per city.

"Civilization III has six difficulty levels,

Level Content Citizens
Chieftain 4
Warlord 3
Regent 2 Monarch 2 "

Both Regent and Monarch are 2 content citizens.

I agree with Arrian as I often do, get India. I do not allow anyone to share my land mass any longe than necessary.

Agreed, hated flip. Plopped city close to flipped city, rushed a library. City size shrunk to 3. Double pressure: 1) culture push nearby cities, and 2) building up military. Do not plan to let them stay long. After economics, they will be gone.

Once you get all the land and RR you are pretty much secure.

Agreed, but RR's are a long way off.

I would question going to Democray if you are going to war a bunch, I would stick with Republic. One warning, Arrian, Thesus and I seem to do a lot of warfare, so that may not be what you want.

Democracy? That's for other civs. Never played with either Demo or communist govt's.
By time can afford Demo, urgent demands for military outweigh any advantages of democracy. I just didn't clarify to Theseus.

-- PF

[vmxa1]

Cool, I thought you went from Warlord, another case of my not paying attention.

[jshelr]

I put something in, but took it out again. Isn't this a very old thread?

[Arrian]

jshelr,

Nope, this one's a day or so old.

PF,

Even though I'm a raging warmonger, I use democracy in nealry every game. It helps being religious, because I know if I get in trouble with WW, Monarchy is just 1 turn away. That's why I love Egypt and Japan (and the Aztecs too, but I prefer Japan's Samurai). China makes things more difficult, and I'm more likely to stick with republic.

Your military is quite small... you need some more horsemen. It sounds like China was blessed in this game. It's ok, you're still gonna win

I admire your game learning method. It's kinda "iron man." Much more so than mine, which is probably the "jelly man" method. Yours will probably teach you more about the game than mine, though.

-Arrian

[jshelr]

Ok, I thought I was getting deja vu all over again. Here's my post on moving up to Monarch for what it's worth.

Down with Temples and Libraries!!!

Just as a point of philosophy, beginning with the monarch level a balanced game no longer yields the highest winning percentage, IMO.

(Note that Arrian no longer likes Babs, but does like China and Japan. There's a good reason.)

Pure warmonger works better.

Principles include 1) don't do research yourself 2) build only barracks in the early game 3) don't expand too much -- better to stop and build vet military units

Beat tech out of the AI and buy tech only to be sure that the tech you win militarily is the most modern possible.

Do not neglect the power of the vet archer rush. True, they are not as impressive as swords or horses. But they are cheap!!! (Check out Egypt to get the best of both worlds.)

On most maps, it is not important to gain land early. It's important to render your neighbors impotent. After they can't hurt you, expand and build at your leisure.

My claim is that warmonger players who depart from the pure approach to fool around with wonders, etc., do so only because they can get away with it and still win easily. As they move further up toward Deity, the fire of competition stamps out the unnecessary and focuses on the bottom line: deliver that stack of vet offensive units to your neighbor's land quickly and you will win.