Winning Early: What do YOU do?

[ducki]

Originally posted by Theseus
When you are in the trading screen with a specific civ, at the bottom of the trading box there are the words "New" and "Active." Click on Active... all of your existing deals with the number of turns remaining will be shown.

So if there's no number next to an "Active" deal, it's no longer "binding"?

[Theseus]

Yes, you are free to go psycho at that point.

[Catt]

Originally posted by ducki


So if there's no number next to an "Active" deal, it's no longer "binding"?

Wait! It's still binding until you cancel it.

Cancel it by clicking on it. You will automatically be brought to the "New" deals screen, with the "canceled" deal appearing on the trade table. Simply remove the canceled deal from the "New" table, proceed with a different deal or no deal at all (by exiting the diplomacy screen).

Even if a particular deal has run more than 20 turns, it remains in effect unless you or the AI partner affirmatively cancels it.

Catt

[Theseus]

Oops, sorry if I was misleading. Yes, you need to cancel... be aware that for your peace treaty canceling and leaving the trading table is basically a (honorable) declaration of war.

[Theseus]

On a new note, I'd like to point out that in the very early game, one should trying to negotiate very sharply.

I just started a new game, as China. I met Liz in 3500BC... she knows Alphabet, and I know Warrior Code and Masonry. When I asked her how much, she wanted both of my techs and 21 gold. By playing around a bit, I realized she'd do the tech deal and give ME 6 gold.

That doesn't sound like anything huge, but if you keep nailing your deals right, it builds up to a huge advantage.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Theseus
On a new note, I'd like to point out that in the very early game, one should trying to negotiate very sharply.

I just started a new game, as China. I met Liz in 3500BC... she knows Alphabet, and I know Warrior Code and Masonry. When I asked her how much, she wanted both of my techs and 21 gold. By playing around a bit, I realized she'd do the tech deal and give ME 6 gold.

That doesn't sound like anything huge, but if you keep nailing your deals right, it builds up to a huge advantage.

yep, you can always get a better deal by negotiating... but the more generous you are, the more the AI likes you. best is e.g. if you give them gpt or resources for free...
as long as you penny-pick in your deals, they will never be gracious towards you.

but in the very early game, i'd definetly go for the better deal. if you don't, you can lose contact with them on higher levels.

[ducki]

Originally posted by Theseus
Oops, sorry if I was misleading. Yes, you need to cancel... be aware that for your peace treaty canceling and leaving the trading table is basically a (honorable) declaration of war.

Ok, now I'm confused.

Basically, I want to be able to go to war without truly upsetting the other AIs.

Example: I go to war against Russia. I bring in Germany with an Alliance vs. Russia.

Now, I have to not make peace with Russia for 20 turns, right? But after that 20 turns, if Bismarck is still fighting, do I need to cancel the Alliance manually, or can I freely make peace with no ill feelings?

Apparently the AIs really hate it when you bring them to a war and then go home. Go figure.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by ducki
Now, I have to not make peace with Russia for 20 turns, right? But after that 20 turns, if Bismarck is still fighting, do I need to cancel the Alliance manually, or can I freely make peace with no ill feelings?

You need to cancel the Alliance manually, THEN make peace with Russia.

At which time Bismark will probably not like you as much, anyway.....

[Theseus]

Bump

[ducki]

Originally posted by Jaybe

You need to cancel the Alliance manually, THEN make peace with Russia.

At which time Bismark will probably not like you as much, anyway.....

Bismarck never likes me much.

[DFHNY]

PTW

This being one of the better threads on apolyton, could the pros add anything about the early game in light of PTW (single player). Perhaps about the new civs? New tactics? Etc.

[ducki]

Not a pro, but definitely do not count on the barbarians to blithely run to their death when they can go around you and kill your workers or find easier pickings from a nearby civ.

One of the easiest ways I have found to get myself into trouble early is not having defenders for my workers, or at least one or two attackers roaming around to take out any barbarians that crop up.

HTH

[Arrian]

Bump. Ducki is correct re: barb behavior. Also, worker buying has been nerfed: the AI now wants about 130gold each for them.

The AI is better now, due to some undocumented tweaks by Soren (AI programmer). Build preferences, terrain development, stuff like that.

PTW has a new hut option: new city. Like in CivII, you get a brand new city. Also like CivII, it may well be in the wrong spot. I prefer getting a settler.

Two major changes in contact with other civs as of PTW v. 1.14:

1) The AI apparently used to be able to trade contact with civs before it had writing, and no longer can. It affords you better contact trading possibilities if you're the first to writing.
2) The AI will now aggressively sell contact with YOU to other AI civs. You will now find civs you've never met calling you up during the AI turn to say hi.

That's about it, except of course for the new civs in PTW. Many of them have high aggressiveness ratings, so beware.

-Arrian

[jshelr]

Arrian wrote, "Many of them have high aggressiveness ratings, so beware."

This may be an understatement by a mile. Others' experiences are most welcome but I have to say that there may be a new strat in the works due to out of control warmongering by the AI.

1. Do the usual stuff early as per this thread.
2. If that does not clear the map, then sit back and relax -- you can research your way to the win as long as you have a decent defence.

Based on several games, it seems probable that the AI are now so warlike that even on high difficulty levels they cause each other so much pain and suffering that the peaceful builder (who's grabbed enough space during ancient history) is going to have a real chance at winning without further conflict.

PS, trade RoP with everybody in sight.

[Arrian]

You're on to something there, jshelr. In my recent Ottoman game (the one I posted in the "A Strategic Choice" thread on the strategy forum), I was on a large continent with 6 other civs, and there was an awful lot of warfare.

The Arabs attacked me (2 reg warriors)
I attacked the Aztecs, knocking them to 1 city with archers.
The Arabs & Romans got into a war, don't remember who started it.
The Arabs got the Aztecs to ally vs. Rome.
The Aztecs fought France, getting the Arabs to ally.
I attacked Rome.
I attacked France.
The Arabs attacked me again.
I attacked Egypt

That's as of 900AD.

-Arrian