Winning Early: What do YOU do?

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
In fact, this IS EXACTLY HOW THE ROMAN FORMATIONS WERE BUILt! They had the most inexperienced units attack first, then the second rows were more experienced units. The elites only had to fight when the battle was going badly.

make 'em tired and locate their positions by sending cheap and weak forces, then let the pros do the finishing work.

reminds me of braveheart:
"send the irish first! arrows cost money, the irish don't"

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
In fact, this IS EXACTLY HOW THE ROMAN FORMATIONS WERE BUILt! They had the most inexperienced units attack first, then the second rows were more experienced units. The elites only had to fight when the battle was going badly.

Not to mention the elites would execute any of the regulars who broke formation.

[Lord Merciless]

I only use luxury slider to compensate for war weariness under democracy.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
In fact, this IS EXACTLY HOW THE ROMAN FORMATIONS WERE BUILt! They had the most inexperienced units attack first, then the second rows were more experienced units. The elites only had to fight when the battle was going badly.

Wow, never known that! Quite an interesting piece of information... seems like Braveheart was quite accurate (regarding the Irish thing, that is), while Gladiator at least did not put any emphasis...

[jshelr]

I think Iraq still carries on this proud military tradition.

[MyOlde]

Which is it?

Congratulations to Theseus for starting an excellent thread.

But I'm confused.

In the first entry, Theseus says "Mine, mine, mine".

In the second entry, Velociryx says "Road, road, road".

This topic is speaking of the very early game and at that point one has a limited number of workers, so my question is: which is it?

Or is this an example of Civ's supreme flexibility in permitting a wide variety of playing styles?

[Arrian]

It's both, really. Mines and roads. If my city is already using the tile, or will be using it in a turn or two, I will mine first, then road. Once I've developed a few tiles, it's time to road toward the next city.

-Arrian

[sabrewolf]

Re: Which is it?

Originally posted by MyOlde
Congratulations to Theseus for starting an excellent thread.

But I'm confused.

In the first entry, Theseus says "Mine, mine, mine".

In the second entry, Velociryx says "Road, road, road".

This topic is speaking of the very early game and at that point one has a limited number of workers, so my question is: which is it?

Or is this an example of Civ's supreme flexibility in permitting a wide variety of playing styles?

mine would be better, because 1 production more is much more important than 1 more trade.
but i've had bad experience with barbarians. if you're mining, i send my workers back into the city (except if there enough defenders (usually not)). if there's a road there, i can just go back without the loss of a move...

[jshelr]

Since reading a post by Dr Fell awhile ago, I've attempted to minimize travel time lost by workers and settlers. These little efficiencies are the stuff that accumulate to material leads. So, the answer is, IMO, if your worker is on a tile that is going to get a mine and a road, do both tasks while he's there.

On the "limited number of workers," comment, you will benefit if you get in the habit of having enough workers in the early expansion to stay ahead of settlers and population increases, even if it costs you a couple of military units. The workers job is to keep everyone moving at top speed and fully employed at max productivity. If you have enough workers to do that, life proceeds smoothly. (Lots of the writers on this thread are so warlike that they only use slaves for workers beyond the first couple, They may regard this idea as overstated. I don't think it is, though.)

[Velociryx]

I'd say....it depends on the worker and your current needs.

I generally assign some workers to working land tiles around cities, and other workers to road building to future city sites.

The workers doing city improvements will do the mine first, road second.

Road Crews will do nothing but roads, with an eye toward getting my new settlers where they need to be, and making that military road network!



-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Specialization of tasks, huh Vel? That's organization.

Me, I just sorta use my workers on whatever nearby task I think needs doing. Some workers do end up as road crews, but often stop for a bit to mine and then continue. I will say this: the choice between worker tasks is much easier when you are playing an industrious civ. That's one of the virtues of being industrious, as a matter of fact.

-Arrian

[Lord Merciless]

I set roads at higher priority than mines. Roads not only give your commerce, but also reduce corruption in connected cities and increase your units mobility.

[Theseus]

I use workers somewhere in between Arrian and Vel... I definitely separate the functions in how I assign work, but the workers themselves are interchangeable.

New topic: AI civs to watch out for in the early game.

Credit goes to Arrian for an invaluable concept, the STCOMOM (did I get that right?).

That's the Scares-The-Crap-Outa-Me-O-Meter.

This is something the new player needs to adopt.

Here are the ones that jump to mind:

Persia, Rome, Iroquois, and Germany. Those are the worst, but the Aztecs, Zulu, and Russians bear watching.

Mostly it's cause of their UUs, and for Germany it's starting with Archers and just being the bastard Bizzy-marcky.

Later stage threats, and please take them seriously, are Japan, China, and France.

The appropriate strategy if you are a neighbor of any of these, is to cut them off at the knees before they can exert their respective power... that means resource denial, trimming, or destruction.

[Jaybe]

(bump)

[Arrian]

Ah, the STCOMOM.

Like all things in Civ, this partially depends on how you intend to play. I have become a raging warmonger, so my list will be different than the builder. For instance, I would fear Germany and Rome more as a builder than as a warmonger. As a warmonger, I'm looking at THEM as targets (preferably before Rome can get more than a couple of legions built).

My STCOMOM, militarists first:

Aztecs: 7/10. Serious pain in the ass if they pick a fight early, but the AI ain't Vel. If run by Vel, this would be a 12/10.

Zulu: 8/10. I love horsemen. I use them a lot. Impi are death to horsemen. I like finding these fellas later... say around the time I have chivalry. Happily, the Zulu have atrocious civ traits, so they almost never amount to much when played by the AI (which ain't no Aeson).

Rome: 7/10. I'm assuming they have iron here. W/O iron, they drop to about 2/10. Still, hit 'em early enough and it doesn't really matter. Cut their iron and deal with the archers.

Germany: 5/10. Can be a pain if they hit you early enough to actually ****** your early expansion. After that, I don't fear them, since I am preparing to kill them. If they survive me and the other AI's long enough to get Panzers, ice cream salesmen are having a banner day in hell.

Japan: 5/10. Same as Germany, though I actually prefer them because religious civs tend to have some culture in their small cities, meaning I get to keep them instead of auto-razing them. They are, however, another beast entirely in the middle ages. Kill them before they get Samurai.

China: 6/10. Similar to Japan in that their UU doesn't come until Chivalry. Strong expansion, fueled by Industriousness, but low culture.

Iroquois: 7/10 (yeah, I know, I said 9/10 earlier, but hear me out). The Mounted Warrior is an incredibly powerful UU. In the hands of the human, that is. I have only occasionally seen the AI do well as the Iroquois, and that (as is often the case) has to do with a nice starting spot and a well-timed war with their neighbors. If they start near me, they are TOAST. W/O a horse resource, they drop to 1/10.

Greece: 8/10. I hate these guys. My gameplan is offensive (heh) and they have an uber-defender. I want nothing to do with them in the ancient era. Getting into a tussle with them means a GA for them, which can really hurt you. Opposite of Japan and China, though - the later in the game you deal with them, the better.

Persia: 6/10. Immortals hurt. Iron, however, is no guarantee, and can be cut. Still, preventing a GA for them is hard, and if you have the misfortune of dealing with a multiple-iron Persia, you have entered the proverbial pain cave (aka the cocoon of horror)*.

Egypt: 4/10. Can be a pain, due to cheap horsemen that provide a GA, but I will either cripple them early with archers or wait until I have my usual horseman horde ready to go. The horsie horde can take them down so fast that a GA won't really matter.

Babylon: 5/10. PitA if they attack you early, and Hammy is kinda agressive. I will pay them off rather than fight until I have my horse horde ready to go. After that I'm not too worried about them. Later in the game, culture can be a factor.

Russia: 4/10. Like hammy, they can be agressive. This is only annoying if they catch you unprepared. Late UU which can make them a serious annoyance if the game is still close.

America, France, England, India: 1/10. This jumps a little bit for France and India during the age of their UU. But seriously, how can a pacifist and a girl in pink scare the crap outta you?

-Arrian

* - this is a relatively obscure reference, so I'll explain. There was once a silly fat white guy who wanted to fight Mike Tyson. He claimed he was gonna put Mike in "his own personal pain cave." The silly man lasted less than 30 seconds.