1.29f PATCH README

[isak]

Re: Re: 1.29f PATCH README

Originally posted by Flinx Sometimes you can loose a lot on renegotiations, so I don't want to automatically renegotiate a deal where I'm getting 110 gold/turn for my silks but I might want to renegotiate a deal where I am only getting 4 gold/turn for my spices.

Maybe it's just to reflect that your opponent is anxious to renegotiate that 110 gold/turn deal

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Soren told us commercial trait would be improved in the patch, Commercial Civs having +4 to their optimal number of cities, rather than +2 previously. Is it still in the patch ?

I really hope so. And while we're at it: I'd really like to see the possibility to change the effect of civ traits in the editor or even ( ) to add new CSA's.

(How about 'agricultural': City tile yields more food, cities are allowed to grow to size 8 without aqueducts and to size 14 without hospitals, Chinese civ changed to agricultural/industrious ...)

Well, maybe in PTW.

[Artifex]

I Dev posted that the commercial trait was gonna get boosted. Did you decide not to boost it after all? Or is this gonna happen with PTW? I thought commercial was getting buffed up THIS patch.

I do think Commercial needs fixed. Poor Romans.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by KingJoshi
Hey Firaxis,

Another question. How much has the file formats changed?

I don't think they hve changed mush. The new BIC format will not take long to get (hopefully). And the SAVE files are still in the base the same as the last time. There are not so mush that should change them. Maybe some fields that get new things at the end, but the beginnings should be the same. It has to do with backwords compability. They need to keep old filestructures loadable, and then is it easies to just build on more data at the end of them or add new sections depending on if it is something new or just an extension of existing things.

I belive that we will see UNIT CITY and CLNY in the BICs on Firday.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Impressive patch ! It was definitely worth the waiting

What was the previous max. value ?

300.

[Steve Clark]

After all this time, we still will not have the ability to create scenarios. I don't understand why Firaxis and some of those here believe we can. If anyone (including Firaxis) has any experience playing Civ2 scenarios or at least know about them, they should be aware that events/macros/scripts/whatever you like to call them are the foundation for creating scenarios. Without them, then they are just custom maps.

I see that events are on the wish list, but if they are holding this to the PtW to make that a major selling point, than I would understand and would wait. In the meantime, don't insult our (Civ2 vets) intelligence by calling what can be produced with this new editor - scenarios.

[Flinx]

Re: Re: Re: 1.29f PATCH README

Originally posted by isak

Maybe it's just to reflect that your opponent is anxious to renegotiate that 110 gold/turn deal

My point was that ALLWAYS renegotiate after 20 turns is just and bad (my opinion worse) than the current situation (yes I know it is an option, and I plan to leave it off).

The feature I would like to see implemented is a notice from the diplomatic advisor that 20 turns have passed and a deal can now be renegotiated if I choose.

I am currently playing on a huge map, I have probably 40-45 cities, and I am modilized against the Russians and producing new units in all of my cities every 2-8 turns. A mutual protection pact dragged me into this war, but it is only going to end when I have captured all of the Russian cities on my continent leaving them with three cities on a small island off-shore (Catherine is a royal pain in the ass once you have been at war with her). A turn can take 10+ minutes, and this war while ending in my favour (I got 7 of the other 8 civs to declare war too) will take a while. I am 100% focused on this war. It might be nice if my diplomatic advisor reminded me of my trade situation from time to time without AUTOMATICALLY opening negotiations on a deal that the other civ is willing to live with, but is never going to accept paying so much now that negotiations are open again.

where did that little rant come from???

[Hagbart]

Originally posted by Steve Clark
After all this time, we still will not have the ability to create scenarios. I don't understand why Firaxis and some of those here believe we can. If anyone (including Firaxis) has any experience playing Civ2 scenarios or at least know about them, they should be aware that events/macros/scripts/whatever you like to call them are the foundation for creating scenarios. Without them, then they are just custom maps.

I see that events are on the wish list, but if they are holding this to the PtW to make that a major selling point, than I would understand and would wait. In the meantime, don't insult our (Civ2 vets) intelligence by calling what can be produced with this new editor - scenarios.

I agree with what you said, the scenario makers need some kind of scripts to make real scenarios, but this patch still makes the editor alot better than it was before.
I really hope they'll include a complete scenario editor in PTW. We know that they at least will make the editor a little better in PTW, because WW and Japanese scenarios will be included in the x-pack.

[whosurdaddy]

What about simply being able to set the diplomacy in a scenario so that before a scenario starts, country A will be at war with country B, or country C will have good relations with country D, etc. This simple ability is crucial to any scenario, and without it, SCENARIOS STILL CANNOT BE CREATED.

I dont see how Firaxis could have spent soooo much time working on all the new features for this patch, and come sooooo close to making an editor that could create functional scenarios by adding so many features, and then leave out only one such crucial and easy feature.

Maybe they simply forgot about this necessary feature and will realease an updated patch within a few weeks with this feature included, now that it has been brought to their attention by the fans.

Oooh, and something else I want to "remind" Firaxis about. It is crucial that an option be made to turn off city razing in scenarios, so that, for example, the Germans can't just raze all of the cities of France in a ww2 scenario, leaving nothing behind for the allies and germany to fight over.

Ok, later.

[whosurdaddy]

Here's a question to any Firaxis member who is willing to answer. I'm just curious if in the new editor, can saved games be opened up and edited in the editor, or just specially made scenario files made from scratch in the editor?

[isak]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 1.29f PATCH README

Originally posted by Flinx
It might be nice if my diplomatic advisor reminded me of my trade situation from time to time without AUTOMATICALLY opening negotiations on a deal that the other civ is willing to live with, but is never going to accept paying so much now that negotiations are open again.

I see your point Flinx - I did so before, but just couldn't restrain myself .
Actually this kind of In-game record keeping is something I'm a big fan of - anything that will reduce the amount of paper on my desk is great.

(Slightly OT: anyone remember the little "send a message to yourself in XX turns" feature in Settlers/Serf City for example?)

Still, you must also admit that you're also a bit p***ed at the way the AI civ's handle negotiations - i.e. they will never accept the same fee when you renegotiate 20 turns later - prices will almost always hike like crazy (unless they've been beat to a bloody pulp in the meantime by some other civ, of course ). If this was not a fact, renegotiating every 20 turns wouldn't be such a bad thing for us, would it?

[Soren Johnson]

Originally posted by Artifex
I Dev posted that the commercial trait was gonna get boosted. Did you decide not to boost it after all? Or is this gonna happen with PTW? I thought commercial was getting buffed up THIS patch.

I do think Commercial needs fixed. Poor Romans.

yes, the Commercial trait was improved for this patch.

and there are a bunch of AI improvements (most of which don't typically get mentioned in readme's as they are quite under the hood), including faster pathfinding and improved AI build priorities (i.e. more knights/cavalry/tanks).

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis


yes, the Commercial trait was improved for this patch.

that's really great!



.... but no mention of it in the readme?????

Would you care to share the exact improvement details Soren?

[Soren Johnson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 1.29f PATCH README

Originally posted by Flinx


My point was that ALLWAYS renegotiate after 20 turns is just and bad (my opinion worse) than the current situation (yes I know it is an option, and I plan to leave it off).

The feature I would like to see implemented is a notice from the diplomatic advisor that 20 turns have passed and a deal can now be renegotiated if I choose.

I am currently playing on a huge map, I have probably 40-45 cities, and I am modilized against the Russians and producing new units in all of my cities every 2-8 turns. A mutual protection pact dragged me into this war, but it is only going to end when I have captured all of the Russian cities on my continent leaving them with three cities on a small island off-shore (Catherine is a royal pain in the ass once you have been at war with her). A turn can take 10+ minutes, and this war while ending in my favour (I got 7 of the other 8 civs to declare war too) will take a while. I am 100% focused on this war. It might be nice if my diplomatic advisor reminded me of my trade situation from time to time without AUTOMATICALLY opening negotiations on a deal that the other civ is willing to live with, but is never going to accept paying so much now that negotiations are open again.

where did that little rant come from???

well, I am pretty sure that "renegotiate every 20 turns" will only benefit the human over the AI. The reason is that if you had a lopsided deal with the AI, IT would decide to renegotiate the deal. In other words, there will never be a situation in which you would benefit from "just being quiet" about the deal expiring because the AI will always ask to renegotiate if it doesn't like the deal.

[Soren Johnson]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


that's really great!



.... but no mention of it in the readme?????

Would you care to share the exact improvement details Soren?

cities and metropolises get an _additional_ extra commerce or two and the "Optimal # of Cities" is increased by 25% instead of 12.5%.