Where Did Civ3 Go Wrong?

[zulu9812]

well - for one, there's more techs to research - what's left to do in Civ3's Modern Age?

[Cyclotron]

I usually fight wars in the modern age... most fun. An easy way to get more out of it is to mod it so the SS compunents are at end of the line techs, and more spread out... so you can't skip techs, and the Modern era gets explored to the fullest.

[Strollen]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by ahenobarb


I don't think that equation holds true in all circumstances. Imagine yourself a prisoner of a hostile force, you have no expectation of release. Are you satisfied?



Interesting you bringing up prisoners. A few weeks ago I attended an inspirational speech by Jerry Coffee. A friend and fellow POW (for 7 years) of John McCain. I believe this man would fit your criteria right?. In his speech he talked about how initially he was feeling so sorry for himself "why me", "when will I get out" etc. But after a while though faith in himself, his fellow prisoners, his country and God, he thought he gained from the experience. (In fact, he got credit for 2 years of French at Berkeley after his release that he learned from fellow POWs via tapping on the walls in code.)

In fact he was more than satisfied each day when he got a small sliver of fish in his soup, or he wasn't tortured, he was actually happy. Since, he expected to be tortured most days and the only protein he expected to see in his food was maggots. So you see lower expectations worked for Jerry.

In the game I gain satisfaction when the AI does something clever (which happens pretty frequently) or when one of my strategies works out. Given Sid's name is on the box, I'll admit I expected the humor, and just fun elements that are present in a game like SimGolf but sadly absent in Civ3.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Zachriel
Six months for $50. Not a bad investment. When the XP comes out, you'll probably get another six months. Plus if you quit for a few weeks, you'll probably enjoy it more. Take a break. Relax. Save the juice. Then come home again.

Agreed. As I've said, Civ3 is a "good" game. If I were to find one thing that was wrong with it (for purposes of this thread), it would be that it is less replayable than the other games in the series. A "great" game would make me return to it time after time; I just can't see that happening with Civ3.


Dominae

[Capt Dizle]

I wonder if some are you are old enough to remember TV shows like the Dukes of Hazard and the A-Team. This was the begining of idiot televison. Babes and action sequences viewed by the masses in their stupor.

Heck, it worked. Lowest common denominator. Inclusive. Lot like the democratic party.

From a marketing standpoint dumbing down products makes sense, at least over the short term.

The people who worked on this game are probably pretty good, technically. And probably are capable of a good game. But the system works against it.

Right now Firaxis is all about cashing in on Sid's rep. That will work for a few more years.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Right now Firaxis is all about cashing in on Sid's rep. That will work for a few more years.

Another factless, baseless comment.

Heck, it worked. Lowest common denominator. Inclusive. Lot like the democratic party.

I'm aware you don't care, but that piece of snide, arrogant, irrelevant trash, plus the accumulation of the rest of your garbage posts on this forum just earned you a ticket to my ignore list. Congrats, not even Coracle has gotten there yet.

[Capt Dizle]

It is wise for a man to ignore that which he cannot comprehend.

I remember James Carvell pulling out a hundred dollar bill on national televsion and saying "no telling what you might turn up if you drag this throught a trailer park". In an effort to turn the spotlight from Clinton's scandals. I will not be found pulling punches in reference to that political association.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Inclusive. Lot like the democratic party.

I thought inclusive was the whole point of democracy.

You should avoid political barbs in this forum. If you want to discuss politics, start a thread in the OT area. Thank you.

[Capt Dizle]

Do not tell me what to discuss Zach. I need neither your advice, council, guidence or direction.

[wrylachlan]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Do not tell me what to discuss Zach. I need neither your advice, council, guidence or direction.

ooh... she's defensive!

[UncleBeef]

Crybabies/Whiners in the forums?

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by cyclotron7


Another factless, baseless comment

My statement was:Right now Firaxis is all about cashing in on Sid's rep. That will work for a few more years.

This is not baseless.

For example..a quote from CivFanatics:

Eagle Games has posted some pictures of game pieces that will be in Sid Meier's Civilization: the Boardgame, which will be released this August. The game pieces are based on the 3D models of Civ3 units.

Also;

Sid didn't work on Civ3.

Firaxis recently hired two business types to run their show.

They sent Sid on a "Tour".

Fact: Civ3 expansion within the first year of release containing nothing that shouldn't have been in the original release.

Fact: Upon the departure of Brian Reynolds Firaxis did nothing to save the project; instead, just ran it out the door half baked.

Fact: Upon the departure of Brian Reynolds, with the fate of the most important game release in world history in the balance, Sid made SimGolf. Sid Meier's Sim Golf.


I wonder if some folks here are braindead.

[Capt Dizle]

Lets talk about the decision to send Sid on a tour. If your company is about making great games, and you are down from two great designers to one, you are gonna keep the one you have left in the studio.

Unless the corporate direction is to milk it, milk it, milk it.

[ahenobarb]

Originally posted by cyclotron7


You may be somewhat unclear on the concept of "we." "We" generally includes me, and since this particular statement does not, "we" is probably not appropriate without some kind of other qualifyer.

This looks like a private fight, but mind if I join? Surely you are not saying that you prefer a game that only has replayability for a few months. Unless your Skinner Box response is much different than most, almost universally the preference would be for a game with longer replayability, which means it is more enjoyable, more fun, and retains its value over time. Very few would show a preference for something that has high cost and limited utility (in this case enjoyment).

Originally posted by Strollen
Interesting you bringing up prisoners. A few weeks ago I attended an inspirational speech by Jerry Coffee. A friend and fellow POW (for 7 years) of John McCain. I believe this man would fit your criteria right?. In his speech he talked about how initially he was feeling so sorry for himself "why me", "when will I get out" etc. But after a while though faith in himself, his fellow prisoners, his country and God, he thought he gained from the experience. (In fact, he got credit for 2 years of French at Berkeley after his release that he learned from fellow POWs via tapping on the walls in code.)

Strange that you mentioned that example (at least of Vietnam POWs), it was in my head as I wrote my comment. McCain also mentioned that the POWs only possession was a washcloth and that when his turned up missing he became very upset. He found another one later, but it turned out to belong to a friend, who got angry at him. When they returned to the States, McCain gave him a box full of brand new washcloths!

You can find happiness in any situation, that is why there are so few suicides, but returning to the topic of Civ 3; If Civ3 has only given us a washcloth, what does that say about it.


A note on techs as well, in Civ 1 and Civ 2 if you weren't getting an advance every 6-8 turns you were way behind, about the furthest behind you could get was 20. In Civ3 you often have to wait 40 turns for an advance (until democracy and libraries etc.) and as a result, technology takes a back seat to warfare.

To use the Skinner Box analogy again, I'm not getting my food pellets often enough to give much consideration to scientific development in my battle plans. It's more like, I've got 80 knights right now, and I should have cavalry in 35 turns, but I need to rub this Civ out now.

[ACooper]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Lets talk about the decision to send Sid on a tour. If your company is about making great games, and you are down from two great designers to one, you are gonna keep the one you have left in the studio.

Unless the corporate direction is to milk it, milk it, milk it.

I just figured it out. jimmytrick is in fact Sid himself! Wow. This puts it all in a new light.

Sid reveal yourself!