When is firaxis going to fix.....

[miike]

When is Firaxis going to release a patch that fixes the diplomacy, trading, and the way that the AI plays in general? I think that the Alpha Centauri AI is much better. At least, it makes some sense. I am sick and tired of the fact that the AI knows exactly where your weak points are, and always attacks them. Every time, I play this game, I get so frustrated with the game, because the AI obviosly cheats, never trades fairly or intelligently, and will attack you for no reason. People will try to offer explanations for all this, but I have played the game, long enough to know that it is poor programming from Firaxis, that needs to be patched before, they bother with a debate about compressing BIC files. There is no sense, in bothering to buy an expansion until Firaxis fixes the bugs and screw ups in the first game.

[notyoueither]

Well miike. Sorry to disagree, but...

Yes, the AI is given some intelligence advantages over the human. However, as a human you should be capable of learning how to cope with them, or even turn them to disadvantages if you are so inclined. Others have. Ask and I'm sure that many answers shall be given.

As for trade, many people are able to get decent trades out of the AI tech-wise. I agree with you about resources though. The usurious rates the AI will often charge me for luxuries has often led to me snuffing out an AI I would have preferred to remain freindly with. Not so good for a game that claims to wish to discourage war and encourage peace.

As for unprovoked attacks... Well, maybe the AI is trying to win? I guess the AI's I launch attacks on might be bewildered as to why I did it, but it always boils down to the fact that I want to win and I figure that going through X Civ is the best way to do it.

[Civ Old Timer]

resources suck too

I think you're absolutely right about how the AI fights. If one city on your border has two defenders and the others have three, it will attack the weaker one EVERY time. It's predictable.

I have other beefs with the design of the game too. Resources are an interesting addition to the game, but are implemented in a very sorry way. I recently gave up on a game where there was only ONE source of oil in the whole world, and it was in the strongest civ in the game. So no oil means I can't biuld the following units: Tanks, Airplanes, Battleships, etc. Most of the modern arsenel is gone. GONE! I'm supposed to take the oil from the Romans with almost no modern weapons, and he can defend with them. That is a sadistic result, especially coming near the end of the game. What huge waste of my time!

Resources should give a small production boost to cities who control them. That's all. It would still make the game interesting, but it would avoid ruining it outright.

I also hate cities flipping due to culture. Maybe some people don't mind. I'd settle for an option to turn it off when I start up a game.

This game really pisses me off. Get it right or go home... hjow often to you need to hear it before you address it? Give people options to control the type of game.

And while I'm pissing on you, firaxis, how about a map generator that generates more than quasi symetrical pear shaped chunks of land? Civ 1, 2 and SMAC and all had better AI and better maps.

Why the heck wouldn't you draw on the best parts of your past???

BAH!

[asleepathewheel]

Similar arguments were also used when Civ2 came out and then when SMAC came out.

I don't see how the AI in SMAC is better than the one in Civ3. I've played SMAC a few times since Civ3 came out, and my new warlike tactics transfer quite well and it was generally a romp. But in civ3, i find a challenge even on monarch.

I think this is probably another case of not being able to change and adapt tactics. Or your ego does not allow you to drop down to chieftain level and work your way back up.

[Jon Shafer]

(Maybe it's just me) But I find the Monarch level fairly easy. Simply expand early on (AI civs will commonly over-expand early on, and if you build up a few horsement and archers early, you can take 2 of them out with east). After that you should dominate most of your continent, so the rest of your rivals on your hunk of land will fall in a matter of time. Once the slug-fest of the modern age beings, pump out modern armor like there's no tomorrow. Of course, this is obviously geared towards a militaristic approach, and it's doubtful you'll win by Diplomatic Victory *ahem* (unless, of course, you ally with everyone remaning and call a vote ). Again, maybe I've just got a defective game and Monarch is a lot harder than I'm portraying it, but I suppose that's just me.

But anyways, back on topic...
Yes, the AI is bad. Let's see you program something better.

Yes, the gameplay regarding resources is bad. Buy a new game.

Yes, the AI's attitude towards diplomacy and trading will make you want to pull your hair out (if you have any left ). Shelf the CD.

Undoubtedly, the game could be vastly improved. But that's not how it is. If you don't like this game, then chances are you won't like Civ IV either. Perhaps they'll fix things. And maybe even expand in certain areas to make the game more fun. Maybe the AI will be more human-like. That's why spending 50 bucks at Electronics Boutique doesn't put you on the street. You won't know unless you buy #4. Disappointed with III? Don't get IV.

Anyways, I'm sounding belligerent (when I'm really not, I just don't see the point of these threads... Firaxis will do what Firaxis does... a thread on a forum won't lead to a major change in gameplay {at least, in the real world}), so I think I'll stop now. Ahhh, this is why I'm making my own Civ-type game.

[Cyclotron]

COT, you sound like a Coracle DL

OK... so, it's cheating when the AI goes for your weak points, but it's good strategy when you go for theirs? Talk about a double standard... I can't believe you are condemning the AI for playing well.

I think (or, I would like to think) I have a bit of authority talking about resources. For months before Civ3 came out, I argued with a poster called Youngsun about resources. He wanted a Civ3 type system, I wanted to keep the old Civ2 system. I am familiar with all the arguments. The problem is, Civ2's system was meaningless and flat. Most modern wars are fought over resources, and the rise and fall of ancient tribes depended on their access to things like iron and horses. Civ3 made these things important, not just small bonuses that you plunked a city over and that was that. Firaxis made resources valuable, dynamic, and important. Even a "supplementary resource fanatic" like me a few months ago had to realize that Civ3 was a giant leap forward in the world of resources. To be content with the Civ2 system is the mark of someone who neither understands resources, or wants to win the game easily wiht no trouble.

As for culture flipping... there are plenty of threads here dealing with that, and I'd be happy to engage you on the issue on any one of those.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
OK... so, it's cheating when the AI goes for your weak points, but it's good strategy when you go for theirs? Talk about a double standard... I can't believe you are condemning the AI for playing well.

I think the problem he has is that the AI somehow automatically "knows" your weak points... not that it exploits them.

I think (or, I would like to think) I have a bit of authority talking about resources. For months before Civ3 came out, I argued with a poster called Youngsun about resources. He wanted a Civ3 type system, I wanted to keep the old Civ2 system. I am familiar with all the arguments. The problem is, Civ2's system was meaningless and flat. Most modern wars are fought over resources, and the rise and fall of ancient tribes depended on their access to things like iron and horses. Civ3 made these things important, not just small bonuses that you plunked a city over and that was that. Firaxis made resources valuable, dynamic, and important. Even a "supplementary resource fanatic" like me a few months ago had to realize that Civ3 was a giant leap forward in the world of resources. To be content with the Civ2 system is the mark of someone who neither understands resources, or wants to win the game easily wiht no trouble.

People are impatient. I see the resource and culture ideas greatly expanded in IV. With these overall rounded-out improvements (and hopefully a better system for war!), perhaps IV will be "the one" we've all been waiting for. Oh well, only thing at stake is a year of waiting and 50 bucks.

[Cyclotron]

I wonder if he considers that the AI probably has embassies with you... and if it's smart, it checks out your cities before attacking. That's what a good human player does...

[Ethelred]

More complaining about the game being to tough for them.

When is Firaxis going to release a patch that fixes the diplomacy, trading, and the way that the AI plays in general?

What level are you playing on? I don't realy see a problem in any of those. The diplomacy is interesting and the same for the trading.

I am sick and tired of the fact that the AI knows exactly where your weak points are, and always attacks them.

Thats what I do to the AI when I attack. I have different idea of what is their weak point of course.

Every time, I play this game, I get so frustrated with the game, because the AI obviosly cheats,

It doesn't cheat. It does know things you don't but there is no other way to handle some of the stuff. Previous Civs really did cheat.

never trades fairly or intelligently,

You aren't winning are you? I guess then it is doing more things right than you want to admit. It does have a different idea than many players about what is fair that is true. Think about it this way. Did you pay what they asked? Then they weren't charging to much. Whatever the traffic will bear although what they really are doing is trying to deal with what its worth to you not for them.

and will attack you for no reason.

Sometimes it for one simple reason. They have to attack someone and you are the best target. Try not to be a target. Of course sometimes it does look the AI civ just wants to start another game and get out of this one.

[nato]

Every time, I play this game, I get so frustrated with the game, because the AI obviosly cheats

Well I try to look at it as the AI gets its advantages, and we humans get our advantages. No AI "cheat" is as big as our advantage in being able to think!

Just try to look at it as you have your strengths, and the AI has different strengths ... and you have to make yours (thinking and smart decisions) count for more than his!

You do have to be careful that you are being smart by being smart, and not by taking advantage of AI behavior / limitations. Also, as I have said elsewhere, I bet the AI could be better if it played to its strengths instead of trying to imitate a human.

In a perfect world the AI would be just like a human, but that will never be. So either you swear off single player totally, and become an MP ranter, or you accept that you are and the AI must be different.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by nato
In a perfect world the AI would be just like a human, but that will never be.

Oh is that so?

[nato]

As far as Civ3 is concerned, yes.

Here you seem to like these:

edit: Spam owns me, does it? I'll compare posts with you anytime you want!

[Jon Shafer]

Spam owns you.

[notyoueither]

For $750 I'll bet Soren could take you on a tour of what TBS AI could really do.

[nato]

Duh, that is exactly my point.

There is simply not enough time and resources to turn the Civ3 AI into Deep Blue or something.

Therefore expecting the Civ3 AI to not cheat and to imitate a human player is very unrealistic. So learn to live with the cheats and accept them as the AI's strength, while yours is being able to think. That or go to MP only when it comes out.

Darn tongue smilies ... must counteract with my personal favorite smilie:

edit: Just to be clear, I'm not yelling or anything ... I just love the little arm guy!