This is great news for 1.18f!!

[player1]

HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY, HEY!!!

Got your attaention?

If you want to speak about atrocities that's COMPLETLY off-topic.

Start thread there and leave here those who want to talk about rumors in Civ3.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi again,

I 100% agree with Player1. We've all had our little rants (including myself, which I now DEEPLY regret, as it has clearly pulled this thread even FURTHER off topic), we all now know our many, opposing, views, and clearly we are never going to come to any sort of agreement, at least, not here!!!
So, back to "reality". It'll be great to have the ability to toggle bombardment units for land/sea kill-as it will finally allow me to create what I've always WANTED-the DIVE BOMBER! Basically a fighter/bomber hybrid-fairly high bombardment strength, though not as high as a bomber! But higher attack and defense than a bomber (though, again, not as high as a fighter!) But, what makes it better than both is that I will have it flagged for both land and sea killing. So, you soften up your targets with a massed bomber run then, WHAMMO, bring in a squad of dive-bombers to finish them off! Of course, as someone else has already mentioned here, this ability will need to be balanced by the ability to flag ground and sea units with the the ability to perform air superiority missions! If this also happens, then I was considering creating a mobile AA unit which, like artillery, can be captured, but can have a chance to shoot down enemy figthers/bombers before they attack!
On another note, do you reckon that Soren will be able to get his "Double Flagging" option for AI strategy into the next Patch? I reckon this be truly cool as well. Also, judging from the last transcript I read (after 1.17f was released), Mike mentioned how, in the editor, he wanted to lump all the flags for improvements, Sm. Wonders and Great Wonders into one, "catch all" category! If this also gets into the next patch, then the Mod-Makers dream has become that much closer to reality!!(After that, all that I feel will be required is civ and city placment, a flag which makes gov-specific improvements TRULY gov-specific, the ability to make minor edits to existing flags-eg changing Manhattan Project from all civs to one civ! and an events editor for scenarios, and this game will be well-nigh perfect!!)
Anyway, sorry for the length of the post, but hopefully this is something we can ALL agree on!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[D.K]

hmmm, so u dont think pearl harbour had anything at all to do with the bombs in Hiroshoma and Nagasaki?

the americans were just being the preverbial 'righteous dudes' - as always

[vee4473]

Hey, Not You Either.....

[Jaybe]

Tsk, Tsk, D.K.

Sorry D.K., we are not OFF on that TOPIC anymore. Please create another thread, if you want.

JB

[D.K]

sorry, i thought it a little rude to not reply to such a long and well constructed post.

Ill refrain from posting on this topic again, so please dont think me rude if i dont reply.

sorry for spoling this thread a bit, hope it gets back to what its supposed to be

regards
DK

[notyoueither]

Don't want to be rude myself. Yes DK, of course the events of 1941 had a large part to play in the events of 1945. Just didn't see the point in mentioning them (and hundreds of others) in a piece about the political background of the bomb. But anyhoo, best to PM me if you wish to continue to discuss.

Meanwhile. Back on topic. Good idea.

I've seen several people mention the need for ground units to perform air superiority in response to lethal bombardment.

I don't see that as a good idea. First of all, you would need to activate air unit flags. They would have operational ranges, and they could be SHOT DOWN in the resulting *dog fight*.

In the Air Naval Combat thread, some of us discussed the possible requirements for lethal bombers. Among the things that I thought would be required were:

AA value for some surface units. Obviously all modern war ships would have an AA value greater than 0. Some ground units could have it. It would function somewhat like SAM batteries in cities. Unfortunately, SAM battery settings are unavailable to units as of now. BTW, SAM battery strengths do not appear to be adjustable in the editor as it stands.

Bombers should be prohibited from landing on Carriers.

A new unit, Naval Air would have lower combat values than fighter and lower bombard than bombers. They could land on Carriers. So could Fighters and Jet Fighters.

Can anybody else think of something useful for the Battle for the Seas?

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Notyoueither,
I think you might have misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about giving AA units an "air unit flag". I was hoping that there would be a flag added to the unit editor for such things as Anti-aircraft capability. I was just thinking of an existing civ3 term that fit. If this were to happen, then bomber defence strength(s) would have to be increased, to reflect the height at which strategic bombers would be operating, but fighter and jet fighter attack strengths would have to be increased as well-to put them on a par with the bombers, but keep them fairly susceptible to AA attack. I agree, however, that your idea would work best but, will they do it that way? I guess we'll have to wait and see!!
I would probably have the Zero and stukka as industrial-era dive bombers, then have jets like the A-10 Thunderbolt as a jet age "dive-bomber" to reflect the amount of lethal firepower this kind of plane could bring to the battlefield!
I also happen to agree that bombers should not be allowed to fit on aircraft carriers or, if they do, they should take up much more space than fighters or dive bombers!! I feel that there should be a light, non-lethal naval bomber (as you suggested), which can go on carriers instead of the large strategic bombers.
Oh well, I guess we'll just have to see what happens when the next patch comes out-fingers crossed!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[notyoueither]

Yes AussieLurker.

There certainly is room for land focused attack aircraft. The Stuka, Sturmovik, and A10 would be excellent examples of this class of aircraft.

As for the air unit flag, Air Superiority is a defined concept in Civ3 already. It is a mission for Fighter aircraft. Yes, the term AA would make it clearer that we were not having Destroyers leap skyward from the Oceans to do battle with those dastardly Bombers. Boy it would be embarassing to be shot down. BTW, I didn't notice you in particular, but I've seen several people refer to Air Superiority for surface units.

Oh, naval attack aircraft would be anything but non-lethal, to ships. I would think that nothing should have the anti-ship capability of Naval Air. It is their job after all.

It will be interesting to see what they do with these adjustments. I wait with anticipation.

[TheBirdMan]

Havn't bought the game (yet).

But does anyone know, whether the AI is able to make an invasion from sea or use carriers????

And what about settle on small islands?

[Jezz]

Aussie Lurker, I believe you are talking about the X2 defense against air units flag from Civ2. That is the key missing ingredient in Civ3. Thats why air vs sea warfare is so unbalanced, and thus they had to originally enforce the can't kill ship with plane rule.

If they do nothing else right, I pray that they insert the X2 against air flag, WHAT THE HELL GOOD IS AN AEGIS IF IT CAN'T DEFEND AGAINST CRUISE MISSILES AND BOMBERS?

[codemast01]

WHAT THE HELL GOOD IS AN AEGIS IF IT CAN'T DEFEND AGAINST CRUISE MISSILES AND BOMBERS?

Here Here !! AEGIS Crusiers are not simply faster (submarine) destoryers. Also I would again like to say that the steath fighter is a redundant (with steath bomber) and therefore not useful. Firaxis should replace this unit.

The announced rule changes are very promising. Hopefully units like the AEGIS Crusier will get the ablity to actively (thru a player command) and passively (similar to the SAM ablities where an aircraft that enters its range has a chance of being hit) bombard aircrafts and missles.

[PatLasch]

I apologize if this is coming too late...

Just catching up on the forums. The real reason America bombed Japan with the nukes.......

Our Words Are Backed With Nuclear Weapons.

Still holds true today. That's why everyone wants them.

[notyoueither]

TheBirdMan

Yes, they will invade from the sea, and yes the AI will occasionally use Carriers correctly.

They will most definitely colonize islands, small or not.

[TheBirdMan]

Sounds good - now I just have to "find" the money.