No room for civility any more?

[Velociryx]

A long time ago (at least, as measured in "computer time" I was a newbie on this forum.

One of the things that drew me to the place was the fact that no matter how many times newbies like me asked the same question over and over again, we always got a polite, complete answer.

In short, it was a fantastic place to be. A place of learning and discovery....a place to meet friends and discuss....anything.

That was really cool.

A forum is made up of, and characterized by the quality of the people who post in it. If you have good, generous, kind hearted, patient people, you'll get a good, generous, kind hearted, patient board. If you have mindless, foul-mouthed boors posting, then the board itself will begin to take on those characteristics, which will, in the long term, serve to drive people away.

Lately, unless my eyes deceive me, it seems we're seeing a relatively higher percentage of boorish posts at the expense of the more patient and thoughtful variety, and that's too bad.

It's too bad for us, because it helps to distroy the fabric of this place, and it's too bad for the owners of the board, who rely on traffic here to generate funds that keep it running.

As for me, I would rather not see the trend continue. I would rather see a board where people can talk about stuff (even if it's for the millionth time) and disagree without having to resort to petty name calling.

I remember when it was so, and it can be so again.

Or...not?

-=Vel=-
PS: Everybody slips. Everybody loses their temper. It happens. But more and more lately, I keep seeing posts cropping up that are well beyond simply "losing your temper" for a minute or two. It saddens me, cos this used to be a really cool board.

It's not quite as cool anymore. Nor as friendly to new posters, who don't DARE ask a question for fear of getting treatment like I've seen here today.

-V.

[Gramphos]

Very intereasing thuoghts, even if they aren't exactly Civ3 topic...

As the forum grows (yes, we've been over 18000 member for a month now) the number o newbie question grows, and people get tired of writing the same replies over and over again. To make the life easier they try to refeere somewhere (an earlier post or a page in tha manual) so that theywon't have to write a very long reply over and over again. When writing dhort replies you easaly make tham a bit hard, as you can't make them personal. Also doing the exact same thing over and over again tires the posters. I'm not a vet as old as you, but I belive that the people weren't as many back then, and the new users registering would not be very many every day.

I'm not sure, but I think that the increased difference in users registered the different times can have an effect on this. Also the newbies will fell as if every old vets knows each other, and feel very unsure. the bigger the group is the harder to get into it.

[Arrian]

Vel,

I know what you mean. I registered here because this was, at least at the time, the best site for discussion of Civ (then, Civ II, and anticipation of Civ III). Posts like those found in Zylka's thread (95 reasons civ III sucks or something like that) really detract from the value of the forum.

I applaud your effort to stop it (which failed miserably, I'm sad to say) and your effort to bring up the topic of civility in general. Unfortunately, there are just too many people who cannot disagree without anger.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

Thank you Gramphos...and as to why I elected to start this thread here, rather than in Civ3 Community....it's because here in this place, is where I've been seeing a steady increase in flame fests and foul language that quite simply drives people away.

That's too bad.

I agree with you, btw, that when I was a newbie over on the SMAC board, there weren't quite so many posters total (13,000 or so), but in SMAC's day, the posts were coming on that forum every bit as fast and furious as they were coming in here....and that stream had a lot more longevity to it, too. Notice the relative lack of posts in Civ3 Strat? Oh sure, there ARE posts there every day...but not nearly as many as you'd expect for a game that's only been out a short while.

Anyway...was just reading today here in Civ3 general, and saw things that made me realize again, that not all change is good.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Thanks Arrian, and it appears that you are quite right. A pity, really, because if everybody here was in full agreement all the time, then this would not be a very interesting place at all. It is when we disagree and debate that things get REALLY interesting. It's just too bad that we seem to be attracting an increasing number of posters who think it's cool to see how many profanities they can squeeze into a single post.

-=Vel=-

[Capt Dizle]

Let me throw my two cents worth in here. Attitude reflects leadership and if this place is starting to stink maybe, just maybe, the facist tone set by at least one of the moderators is a factor.

for now

ha ha

but maybe not for long

[Velociryx]

Point taken, JT...but, to use myself as an example, my posting style remains the same, regardless of the actions of the Moderators...yours too, from what I have seen...which is a good thing, btw! So we, collectively, set the tone that the forums take.

Right now, that tone leaves something to be desired, which was one of the main reasons I started this thread. To post in it, and do my part to restore a little civility here.

I can try...

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Some of the unfortunate posts you're talking about, Vel, are the result of boredom. If there is an interesting topic up for discussion, people will pay attention to that, and largely ignore the flame war crew. Without an audience, the flame wars die out pretty quickly. On the other hand, if there isn't much good discussion going on, there is a vacuum... and the vacuum gets filled with... dirt.

-Arrian

[Capt Dizle]

Well, Vel, I can only say that you are correct, that little outbreak today was digusting. We all should try to restrain ourselves and behave in a way that at least resembles human decency.

Or, at least, try to couch our insults in sarcasim or humor. How much creativity does it take to call someone's mother a name like that?

Pathetic.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Let me throw my two cents worth in here. Attitude reflects leadership and if this place is starting to stink maybe, just maybe, the facist tone set by at least one of the moderators is a factor.

for now

ha ha

but maybe not for long

How would this be a factor? If you have a problem with at least one moderator....talk to that moderator, don't take it out on everyone else. I am a newbie here, but I have been playing Civ games since the beginning on an Amiga, I don't really come here for help, but I do come here for DISCUSSION, which is really hampered by flaming newbie and so forth.How about a flame thread that can just be refered to instead of flames on the normal "help me" threads. A couple extra seconds of typing can't be that hard. Besides swearing doesn't make a point if you do it all the time.....Save it for when it REALLY makes your point....da*n it.

[Velociryx]

An outstanding point, brother Arrian.

I think that too then, speaks *volumes* about the game whose name this forum bears.

That there are relatively few interesting topics left to discuss would seem to imply a relative lack of depth and replayability. That the boredom sets in at all would seem proof positive of the claims that many naysayers have been making.

Or...perhaps it's something else entirely. Just checked the calendar, so I know it's not the full moon, but...I dunno guy....if there's boredom in the Civ3 forums, then that boredom has got to have a reason....least that's my thinking on it.

-=Vel=-

[ColdWizard]

as the number of people in a place increase, the number of people that are *******s in that place also increases. a portion of the non-******* people will be put off by the *******s and depart, resulting not only in a larger number of *******s, but a larger percentage of them as well.

[Velociryx]

\_/

Round of drinks then, for Arrian, JT, Gramphos and everybody else who'd like to see a bit of civility return to the boards.

We can make it happen guys....one post at a time we can...

-=Vel=-

[Capt Dizle]

Tuberski,

Why are you grinding your axe on my head?

jt

[Captain]

I've found the files, creation, and strategy forums really nice. I've asked a lot of questions and gotten some pretty good & detailed answers, but I don't mind if someone refers me to another thread that already answers my questions. That's just as good. So my experience here has been pretty good.

What I find really interesting is that some people are really helpful and kind in one thread but then have an ugly side in another.

Maybe we should all step back and get some perspective. It's game. A game with a lot of depth by implication. Most arguments are worth discussing and we can learn a lot from disagreement, but it's not really worth getting into fights over. At that point, we usually stop thinking.

I blame a lot on personal pride. Pride makes us incapable of seeing things from someone else' view, or of admitting a mistake. We are unable to see how someone else might read our writing and think our interpretation is the only valid and obvious one. Then things get uglier and uglier, sometimes from just a simple misunderstanding. We think we are owed something and when we don't get it, we feel it's our right to be angry & demand an apology without giving one first.

Part of a solution may be to think for a moment before posting a reply, and also trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Don't drag in a past reputation to affect the current thread debate.

We should also respond to help received with some thanks or appreciation. Perhaps some people get tired of helping without thanks. We are not owed answers. Those are gifts from helpful people and we should be appropriately thankful and give credit where due.

Just my 99 cents.