No room for civility any more?

[rpodos]

I have been lurking here and at CivFanatics since early November.

I am addicted to the entire Civ series, going as far back as Empire. I have thoroughly enjoyed learning from other gamers, and have also been dismayed by the gradual decay of civility on these forums... thus, my first post.

1. I heartily agree with Vel's first post on this thread... "If you have good, generous, kind hearted, patient people, you'll get a good, generous, kind hearted, patient board." What's so hard about that?

2. Yes, jt, I have seen the moderators' heavy hand... my first comparison would be to Mayor Giuliani (I live in NYC), who has mixed fierce and soometimes overly harsh discipline with the greatest of compassion and effort; I guess we have to be patient with moderators too.

3. The game itself: It is not everything it should be... in fact, I have yet to complete a game (I've played about 35-40 so far). Once I hit late industrial or the early modern age, I have achieved overwhelming momentum, and prefer not to deal with late-game tedium. Very dissatisfying, as compared to the "win" in Civ 2 or SMAC. And I agree, post-1.17 the AI is doomed to Communist ruin.

So be it... CIVility should still be expected, especially in that the Firaxians have made it clear that they too are passionate about the game, and are listening and reacting to those community members who are constructive and not abusive. I participated in the last chat, and it was eminently clear that Jeff, Dan, Soren, et al, were really trying to focus on feedback from the more positive participants. I have faith that they will continue to improve the game, and that the fracturing of the community through mods and changed BICs will be healed.

Lastly, much thanks to those who have so greatly contributed here and at CivFanatics... you have added immeasurebly to my enjoyment of the game.

R

[Whoha]

empire...

Just to be sure, you are talking about the one with the text display, aren't you? That game is awesome, and the ai really improves if you prohibit it from building warships(only transports) because then it builds lots of planes and uses them ala smac/x.

[rpodos]

I'm not sure what you mean by "text display."

The Empire I used to play was by Sid Meier, and was sort of combat-only precursor to Civ. It was awesome... in fact, some of the military concepts and interface would be useful in Civ 3.

R

[Jack_www]

Many of the people who work at firaxis and visit this site no longer go to the gerneral forum. The main reason was the massive ammounts of complaining that was done when the game first came out and all the arguing and name calling that came with it. I dont think they mind reading complants about the game and responding to them, but when someone voices the same complaint a million times and then starts to agrue with people who disagree with them it gets really ugly. Thus the lack "civility" on the general forum that has been here since the release of the game has driven away the people who work at firaxis away. Many people wonder why no one at firaxis responds to their questions and comments on the general forum, and think that it is because they dont care about pr, which I though for a long time. But it is because the general forum has turn into a big flam war so to speak. I do not like to curse or to arguee over anything, especially of all things a simple game. All it is a game, why must people get so upset about it and and start a flam war over it??????

This is something that we see all around us in the world we live today. People are becoming ruder and ruder. I hope people can agree to disagree and have disscussions were they do not feel a need to start flam wars and can have fun posting. I thought people play games and talk to other people about the game to have fun, not to agrue and insult anyone who has a different opoin then them about a game.

[Subway's Jared]

Here it's just like in the streets, ppl are mean and they call me fat boy.....

But I dont mind, I can have it my way cuz I eat at subway!

[godinex]

I`m new in this forum, but one of the best things of this place is the people. Keep the figth for the forum... and Vel, the force be with You.

[Gatekeeper]

Velociryx :

For God's sake, why do I feel like I've just been to a revival meeting after reading this thread?

CYBERAmazon

[Cookie Monster]

Good job Vel on your attempt to restore order.

I think society in general needs to be more civil.

"Man technological progress over the ages is quite impressive. But it is amazing how little man himself has changed." He still tends to act the way that the neanderthals or barbarians did so long ago. No manners, no morals, no etiquette.

Here's to hoping that here at least people can be more civil.
(Pick's up mug of virtual beer and raises a toast)

[Capt Dizle]

In response to Jack, Firaxis has not communicated with the fans here in regard to what they are doing in regard to addressing some of the issues in the game. This has lead to ever increasingly outragous posts by people.

Look at the last patch readme. It was unintelligable. I have been playing civ games forever as well as many other games and I couldn't decipher what they were trying to say.

When Firaxians post they do as much harm as good. I don't think they understand the concept of PR, if they were in another line of business and treated people like this they would be out of business.

Firaxis rushed a game to market. People paid money for it. Firaxis is obligated by the laws of common decency to communicate with the people who paid for the incomplete and untested product. We should have a list from them now of things to be patched and an ETA for the next patch.

The fact that Firaxis has not done any PR at all has contributed to the discord on this forum. In that respect they are somewhat to blame for the lack of civility.

At any rate, I can not let you get off with saying that they don't look at the forum because of the complaints, its as if you want some of us to be sorry that we hurt their feelings.

jt

[Capt Dizle]

And one more thing. If you look carefully you will see that the worst behavior here, the name calling foulness and personal attacks are not being made by those complaining about the game. Most of it is done by Firaxis apologists.

[Ming]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Most of it is done by Firaxis apologists.

I think there is more than enough blame to spread on both sides.

Even if you feel the game is incomplete... or bad... or the worst game you have ever bought, it doesn't give you the "moral high ground" to personally insult members of the Firaxis team.

I have no problems with people making complaints. And due to the lack of response, I can understand people making the same complaint over and over again. There is a lot of frustration out their now... but still, resorting to insults is just plain wrong.

And to those that insult the people that are insulting Firaxis or members of this site...
Two wrongs don't make a right...

[Arrian]

Jimmy & Jack,

I think the point here is that whether or not someone is arguing for or against CivIII or a particular feature, insults, foul language and the like are unacceptable. Some people on both sides of the "CivIII sucks/CivIII rules" argument have been rude and insulting. I know some felt that they were driven to it by others who starting flinging insults their way, but even that isn't really a good excuse.

-Arrian

Edit: heh, Ming beat me to it.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
In response to Jack, Firaxis has not communicated with the fans here in regard to what they are doing in regard to addressing some of the issues in the game. This has lead to ever increasingly outragous posts by people.

Look at the last patch readme. It was unintelligable. I have been playing civ games forever as well as many other games and I couldn't decipher what they were trying to say.

When Firaxians post they do as much harm as good. I don't think they understand the concept of PR, if they were in another line of business and treated people like this they would be out of business.

Firaxis rushed a game to market. People paid money for it. Firaxis is obligated by the laws of common decency to communicate with the people who paid for the incomplete and untested product. We should have a list from them now of things to be patched and an ETA for the next patch.

The fact that Firaxis has not done any PR at all has contributed to the discord on this forum. In that respect they are somewhat to blame for the lack of civility.

At any rate, I can not let you get off with saying that they don't look at the forum because of the complaints, its as if you want some of us to be sorry that we hurt their feelings.

jt

One thing I want to clear up was that I was refering to the fact that no one at firaxis ever posts anything on the general forum anymore. Many are still active in the creation and strategy forums
and they do respond to people's posts to a limited degree. I am not saying pr at firaxis could not use some help, but they have been active in some of the forums on this site. I also do not want this to turn into a disscusssion about how firaxis handles pr, and that slowly turn into a flam war and destroy the orginal purpose of this thread. Many people at firaxis have said they stay away form the general forum and I think it is because of all the stuff that goes on in the general forum.

In this thread is were I got the information that firaxis personal, at least on of them anyways, is active in the creation and strategy forums.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40647

[Capt Dizle]

Ming, I think I get your point.

[TheDarkCavalier]

Hey!

Just came back from school, it's kinda late for this, but anyways here goes...

1. IGNORE stupid questions? what if it's a newbie that doesn't understand something... pointing out that the question is stupid isn't really wrong...

2. A maanual is made in such way, not to reveal too much, but also HELP the player...

3. And Vel's euh... friend, I think you're the one that's wrong...