No room for civility any more?

[Capt Dizle]

Actually, I have been playing a lot. I actually appreciate Firaxis's efforts to patch it up, but, IMHO, in some ways its worse now that before because they don't test the darn stuff. The fix is sometimes worse than the bug/flaw.

[Velociryx]

Agreed, JT....your comment the other day re: unforseen consequences catching up with them rings VERY true.

-=Vel=-

[notyoueither]

The problem isn't (wasn't) criticism Vel.

As someone who participated in the flaming at a certain point, I had no problems with your reasons for turning off on the game or your statements about those reasons. There was nothing personal to me about them, except that I did not share your feelings.

I did take exception to two things when I first started posting on this forum. 1. Personal attacks on Firaxians who could do nothing (or next to nothing) in response. 2. Insults to the people who liked the game and said so. I will fully accept my responsibility for my statements back in those (recent) days of slander and flaming, however I partook for a reason and I believe that reason was valid.

I do not want to say who cast the first stone for I do not know. However, I have noticed that things have improved lately. It has been a while since I have seen *Fan-boy* and *Whiner* strewn throughout 75% of the active threads on General. Maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention.

I will say this though, even though I know that many will disagree with me. The mods are way too slow with the ban. I noticed Ironikit's (sp?) recent behaviour as I'm sure you did too. Did you notice the prior thread where he used some similarly coloured language? Did you notice that he wasn't banned then even though it was brought to the attention of the mods/admins? Was it a case of give them an inch and they'll take a mile? Maybe.

BTW. Good thread.

Salve

[Ming]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The mods are way too slow with the ban. I noticed Ironikit's (sp?) recent behaviour as I'm sure you did too. Did you notice the prior thread where he used some similarly coloured language? Did you notice that he wasn't banned then even though it was brought to the attention of the mods/admins?

Contrary to popular belief... banning is a LAST resort. We don't sit around waiting with our hand over the banning button going...
GEE LOOK, ANOTHER LOSER... HA HA HA HA

If we banned EVERYBODY that has ever lost their temper or said a swear word, we would have more restricted members than active members.

"mild" flaming is allowed... When people are discussing things they take very seriously, we expect a little friction...
When we see it (and no we don't read everything that is posted, some of the stuff has to be pointed out to us) we try to first chill things down in a low key fashion. If that doesn't work, we become far more direct. If that doesn't work, we then restrict people. Usually, it takes REPEATED abuses before we do as such... unless a killer flame war breaks out. And even then, we prefer to only nail the main players, and not just sweep up everybody in the net.

If we just restricted people left and right, the forum would go crazy with complaints about a Nazi State, Freedom of Speech... Blah Blah Blah... making things even worse. (Believe me when I say... been their, done that)

We are trying to walk a fine line between the ability of members to argue the issues, and keeping things from getting out of hand.

This is a private site, and the owners can make any rules they want. Freedom of speech doesn't exist... but the owners would like to provide a place for freedom of discussion.

If you ever see a post that you think is over the limit, help us out and PM me to make sure I see it...

If you don't like the way things are done... there are other civ sites where moderation is much harsher. There are also civ sites with very limited moderation. The choice is your to make.

But while you are here, you will live by this forum rules!

If you have a problem with any rule... or a moderators actions...
Feel free to contact the owners via PM or Email. Or, as many do, you can post a thread in the Apolyton Community Forum. But PM's and Email usually get faster response, and is not so public

Hmmmm... time to get off my soap box...

Keep on Civin'

[notyoueither]

See Ming, that's the thing. I don't have a problem with you, personally, or the job that you do. Man you must have a lot of patience to sit through all the sh... (consults Dictionary of Civil Usage)... stuff that you do.

Furthermore, I like the openness of Poly. That's one of the reasons why I am here.

However, Iron called somebody a... (flip, flip, flip)... felatio generating entity and was not banned for it. After that I guess he didn't know what it would take. That's my point.

BTW. Did I mention that I really appreciate the intent of the owners to encourage the relatively free exchange of ideas? Did I mention that I think the mods must be nuts to sign on to do the jobs they do? Did I say that I really appreciate the efforts of the people behind the scenes who have made Poly possible? Just thought I would take the opportunity to do so.

Salve

[Ming]

Iron is currently doing a three week term in Mingapulco...
After that, any transgression will lead him back there.

Seems fair to me

[notyoueither]

There was a previous episode. About 4 weeks ago? Then it was a single post. Now it was across an entire thread.

Somebody (Lib?) brought it to Markos' attention in a thread he was participating in (maybe you too, but I haven't checked). No response (or next to none).

My reason for bringing this up? How can any environment remain civil where such flagrant abuses are tolerated or ignored?

Salve

[Ming]

Originally posted by notyoueither
My reason for bringing this up? How can any environment remain civil where such flagrant abuses are tolerated or ignored?
Salve

They are neither tolerated, or ignored. But again, banning isn't the first resort. This place would go balistic if that was the case.
As it is, people go crazy when we actually ban somebody that deserves it... (you don't want to read my PM's or Email)

We can't watch these forums every second... we do the best we can without making things worse.

[Capt Dizle]

Of course you can't watch this forum every minute Ming. You spend half your time posting at Counterglow.

jt

[Ming]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Of course you can't watch this forum every minute Ming. You spend half your time posting at Counterglow.
jt

Give me a break... I have to go somewhere to relax
If you had to read as much of these forums as you could... you would find some other forum to kick back on too

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ming
we do the best we can without making things worse.

Well... I guess we'll have to take the good with the bad. Open Poly means a sometimes ugly Poly. I'll take the open option.

I guess that leaves the situation up to us, the posters. Right Vel?

Salve

[Ming]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I guess that leaves the situation up to us, the posters. Right Vel?
Salve

Yeah... it is up to the posters. Because they are Apolyton. Yes, there is a whole world of Apolyton that many posters don't see.
Many are just interested in the forums... But, the forums is where we interact.

The posters and people that contribute to this site are what makes Apolyton what it is... a community.

It is indeed up to us...

[Antonin]

Originally posted by DATarbell
For the most part, I have avoided the Apolyton Civ3 forums for months now--entirely due to the excessive amount of "incivility" (is that the right word?) and a seeming lack of tolerance....

Unfortunately, I'm also not surprised by the continued ugliness that keeps raising its ugly head in these forums.

This is entirely the reason I have been avoiding Apolyton recently. But this is an excellent thread.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Antonin


But this is an excellent thread.

indeed it is.
in fact, this thread is the reason i decided to start posting here. as long as there are enough members who have a similar philosophy to me then i think i will be happy here. without wanting to sound like a fortune cookie or something (what the hell, actually i DO want to): how much you get out of the forum depends on how much you put in.

peace and love, man

[moomin]

Having just found this thread, I can only agree. I've been haning around Poly for some time, even if I never posted much, and it seems to me things recently gotten worse.

It is entirely possible to express yourself politely if you want to.

But then again, I happen to think that it's not only us, it's the game and the developers as well. I can't imagine a more effective way of generating frustration - and along with it, rudeness - than the intentional almost, but not entirely, non-participation that the FIraxis guys been doing here.

The fact that everyone and their grandma has their own set of rules for the game, making serious strategic discussion in the Vel-SMAC genre almost impossible contributes as well. But I can't be the only person to have noticed that the general levels of participation and the number of posts seem to have dropped of sharply after the third patch, so perhaps we're headed for some new equilibrium.

All that said; here's the off-topic material: Vel! Where's the meat about Velocigames and the Game Whose Name No Mere Mortal Can Recall? I'm dying to hear some news, man! If you're about to adapt Firaxis' doctrine on forum participation, please tell us so...