pop-rushing and tech trading...

[DrFell]

Originally posted by player1
While whiping is even worse. It degrades AI.
I have conquested one American city in ancient era.
And now, I am in Industrial era, and some people are still unhappy because Amrecians whiped their own people 2000 years before.

Yeah, unhappiness from whipping should disappear when another civ conquers the city, after all, it's not you who's subjected them to any oppression. The people should of course have a memory and unhappiness should come back if the city goes back to it's previous owners.

[Grey Fox]

Why won't the AI trade me any techs?

Seems like it's them against me...

The only possible strategy in Pop-Rushing it seems is the ones Aeson provided, put up some worker factories, and some 1 Specialist cities (Why Entertainers Aeson? Make 'em Taxmen or Scientists instead) that pop-rush with the workers.

This would make it possible to rush out an Horseman or Swordsman every other turn in one town.


To prevent this strategy, Firaxis would have to take away "Add to City"-option with Workers and Settlers.

[Aeson]

I just defaulted to entertainers (much like the game), I should have said specialists. A way to fix specialist rushing without disallowing population increases through adding settlers and workers is to allow unhappy people to turn into resistors. The first pop rush would make a content citizen unhappy, the next would make an unhappy citizen into a resistor. Since a resistor can't be changed to a specialist, and a city in resistance can't rush build, this would limit cities to how often they can be pop rushed.

[DrFell]

Yeah, that would be a good way to fix it. Sounds similar to the unhappy citizens of civ2. Might be difficult to put in though, especially if your troops quelled the resistors. All you'd need would be a couple size one pop rush cities, when you get resistance in one, wait for it to end, then switch to another. Still, that would make it even more difficult to use.

[Arrian]

Aeson,

Great idea... but don't resistors have to be foreign? So I don't know if this could be done in a "native" city. I could be wrong, though. If a resistor doesn't have to be foreign, your idea fixes the exploit nicely. The negative unhappiness should remain, and the penalty should be returned to 20 turns. Then the only real problem left is inherited unhappiness when you capture cities. I could see that being difficult to change, however.

-Arrian

[Bloodaxe]

And here's a picture. I've forgotten exactly when I captured this city but it was 20+ turns ago.

[GeneralTacticus]

I agree that you shouldn't 'inherit' unhappiness from what the previous owners of a city did. If anything, you should get happiness bonuses in cities that have been abused, but the unhappiness should come back totally if you do it too.

[GeneralTacticus]

I agree that you shouldn't 'inherit' unhappiness from what the previous owners of a city did. If anything, you should get happiness bonuses in cities that have been abused, but the unhappiness should come back totally if you do it too. Of course, this should also go away after a while...

[korn469]

The Pop 1 exploit is EASY to fix

basically the same rules being exploited by turning pop 1 cities into units factories is the same exploit used in SMAC to create poor man's punishment spheres, and there is an easy fix for this

make all cities have to have at least one laborer

this would end biggest of the exploits with pop 1 cities because it would go into riots eventually and wouldn't be useful to rush from, i suggested the same fix for army laundering (the practice of putting all of you military units into cities that can't riot, either punishment sphere cities or size one cities with just an entertainer) in SMAC, but basically it ends happiness exploits of all kinds (army laundering, unit factories, etc) in the civ genre

[Big R]

AI understands time value of money

Originally posted by belchingjester

I don't have a problem with the AI tech trading (makes it easier to catch up), but I find it ridiculous (this has been raised other places too) that an AI would be willing to pay me 60 gold for a tech, but would be insulted by 3 gold/turn for 20 turns.

-belchingjester

I'd suggest the AI is just being a smart financial cookie:

Assuming a 5% interest rate (Wall Street), 60 gold now is worth over 159 gold in 20 turns.

3 gold for 20 turns is worth maybe two thirds of that (about 104?).

So, the AI is quite correct in turning you down for offering him 55 less gold than he offered you.

R.

[Zachriel]

Re: AI understands time value of money

Originally posted by Big R
I'd suggest the AI is just being a smart financial cookie:

Assuming a 5% interest rate (Wall Street), 60 gold now is worth over 159 gold in 20 turns.

3 gold for 20 turns is worth maybe two thirds of that (about 104?).

So, the AI is quite correct in turning you down for offering him 55 less gold than he offered you.

That's assuming each turn is only one year. If each turn is 20 years, then the interest rate in the example is much, much lower.

Considering the uncertain political situation over the long term, and the unreliability of civs, human or AI, it's surprising loans are available at any interest rate.

[Big R]

Re: Re: AI understands time value of money

Originally posted by Zachriel


That's assuming each turn is only one year. If each turn is 20 years, then the interest rate in the example is much, much lower.

I agree that the ANNUAL interest rate would be much lower, but I'm comparing apples and apples:
Interest per turn (as I believe Wall Street does?) to payment per turn. This should make the number of years per turn irrelevant.

If I'm wrong about Wall Street paying 5% interest per turn (can't check right now) and it is in fact 5% interest per year,
then it MAGNIFIES the difference between lump-sum now vs payments for 20 turns, making lump-sum even more valuable.

[Galahadba]

the unhappiness penality for pop-rushing is really only 20 turns????
couse i have a game that i pop hush in 3 of my cities pratically every turn during a long time (all the ancient age) and now after more than 100 turns (i havent count it, but i'm already in the modern time) i stiil have unhappy citizens in my cities, and this is making a lot of trouble hehehe

[Aeson]

It is 20 turns of unhappiness per rush.

[Galahadba]

yes, but you have one more citzen being unhappy for 20 turns at every hush or you have one more citizen being unhappy plus the total turns of unhappyness for every one is now 40 turns?