pop-rushing and tech trading...

[Soren Johnson]

I just wanted to clarify a few issues.

First, pop rushing has not been eliminated. A few change, however, have been made. You can not sacrifice over half the population of you city anymore. Also, city unhappiness can "go negative," which means if your city has 1 citizen and 4 have been sacrificed recently, you will need 4 happiness points (from temples, luxuries, military units, whatever...) to keep that 1 citizen from being unhappy. In previous versions, just having a spearman in the city was enough to keep that 1 citizen content, even if you had sacrificed an infinite number of citizens.

Second, the AI will no longer trade techs during your turn.

[Hagbart]

good work

[volcanohead]

Hmm... Better and better. Terribly sorry for asking the following question in yet another thread, but I think it may be important. And it'd be great to hear from you Soren if you can answer this:

Have you upgraded the AI so that it is aware of the fact that culture flipping can be avoided by having more units present? Or is there a different rule for cities with no foreign nationals? I'm thinking about AI cities which border a civ with greater culture...

I think this could be significant because if the AI does pump up border city units to prevent flipping then we have a greater challenge, and if not then the wily human player will have all the advantages of culture and none of the disadvantages.

Thanks,

V

(edited for typos)

[Pembleton]

Does this mean you can exploit the AI like you could before the first patch by trading for a tech and selling it to all other civs during your turn? I only played a few games after the first patch because I desperately wanted stacked movement, so forgive me if there was some other changes to compensate for this that I did not become fully aware of.

[Dinner]

Re: pop-rushing and tech trading...

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis
Second, the AI will no longer trade techs during your turn.

The fix about pop rush makes sense thanks for the clarification, however, I still have a concern about trading techs on other players turns. The fix you have implimented will work well on a single player game but I am concerned about what impact it will have on future Multiplayer games.
In MP games it seems like the game would be slightly more entertaining if the other players could conduct diplomacy when it is another players turn. Negotiations can sometimes take up a lot of time so by allowing Human players to conduct diplomacy "around the clock" we can minimize wasted time and give the other players something to do while they wait. Just my two cents...

[volcanohead]

And now I'm really shooting myself in the foot: I'm sure all the Apolyton members really appreciate the information you've provided today, before the release of the patch. However, it seems to me that you could perhaps make your lives easier by providing a bit more detail in the original readme.txt... It happened in the last patch and it's happening again now that there appear to be several itmes left missing from the readme (tech-trading) or left poorly explained (pop-rushing). This is not a whine, as obviously you provide this information anyway in this forum, in response to our questions.

I just wonder if it's not easier for you guys to provide more information in the readme??

Cheers

V

[Gramphos]

Re: Re: pop-rushing and tech trading...

Originally posted by Oerdin
The fix about pop rush makes sense thanks for the clarification, however, I still have a concern about trading techs on other players turns. The fix you have implimented will work well on a single player game but I am concerned about what impact it will have on future Multiplayer games.
In MP games it seems like the game would be slightly more entertaining if the other players could conduct diplomacy when it is another players turn. Negotiations can sometimes take up a lot of time so by allowing Human players to conduct diplomacy "around the clock" we can minimize wasted time and give the other players something to do while they wait. Just my two cents...

Yes, that is true, but the AIs can do a trade mush faster.

[Soren Johnson]

Originally posted by Pembleton
Does this mean you can exploit the AI like you could before the first patch by trading for a tech and selling it to all other civs during your turn? I only played a few games after the first patch because I desperately wanted stacked movement, so forgive me if there was some other changes to compensate for this that I did not become fully aware of.

Well, I suppose so, but the AI is now _much_ more aggressive about trading techs with each other, on their own turn.

[Worthingtons]

As if they werent enough already

[FNBrown]

Just wanted to post my thanks to Soren for the clarification...

Nice job on the patch. I'm looking forward to playing it. Overall, I think it's pretty clear that Firaxis has paid some attention to the playability complaints here and on other boards, and has worked to address them.

Of course, collectively speaking, we're never going to be 100% satisfied.

[Arrian]

Re: pop-rushing and tech trading...

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis
I just wanted to clarify a few issues.

First, pop rushing has not been eliminated. A few change, however, have been made. You can not sacrifice over half the population of you city anymore. Also, city unhappiness can "go negative," which means if your city has 1 citizen and 4 have been sacrificed recently, you will need 4 happiness points (from temples, luxuries, military units, whatever...) to keep that 1 citizen from being unhappy. In previous versions, just having a spearman in the city was enough to keep that 1 citizen content, even if you had sacrificed an infinite number of citizens.

Excellent news. Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering how poprushing would work - as you describe it, the changes will have no effect on my strategy.

Thanks Soren.

-Arrian

[Ming]

Originally posted by volcanohead
However, it seems to me that you could perhaps make your lives easier by providing a bit more detail in the original readme.txt... It happened in the last patch and it's happening again now that there appear to be several itmes left missing from the readme (tech-trading) or left poorly explained (pop-rushing).

I think it's a simple of matter of that they are too "close" to the information. It might have seemed obvious to them when they say something, because they have been working on it so closely. Where as, to somebody that hasn't... some of it might not be as clear as intended.

I really don't think that misunderstanding will become clear until after they have printed something. And since they are doing a fine job of clearing up any misconceptions... they are probably doing the best they can

Again... thanks for the info.

[Libertarian]

I must agree. I'm impressed both by the patch and Firaxis' follow up.

[bloodysmurf]

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis

Well, I suppose so, but the AI is now _much_ more aggressive about trading techs with each other, on their own turn.

Teriffic! Have you made any other adjustments to AI behavior that aren't mentioned in the readme?

Thanks for keeping us informed!

-ollie-

[pauli]

Well, I suppose so, but the AI is now _much_ more aggressive about trading techs with each other, on their own turn.

well, i guess that means meeting other civs first is now even more important, and trading communications away should be avoided... seems to benefit the explorer more than the trader now.