two months have passed, and we have no idea when next patch will be released

[player1]

Originally posted by Archaetus
Although many may disagree with me here, I think a simple "I can't answer that" is better than "I can't answer that but I'll give you a hint".

Look thead at strtegy forums called "Inquiry for Firaxis".
There you'll find answers. (although 80% of answers are: "I don't know")

[Bilas]

Archaetus I agree with everything you said! You are just keeping it real!

But I think your comments will fall on deaf ears with Firaxis and as for Mark he will just give you some B-S.

I always say a little good PR from Firaxis would do wonders and again please don't tell me they are so busy. They have enough time to com on these boards and Slap people around especially when it comes to Money! Just ask that guy named CharelsFarley(sp) that they seem to be arguing with somewhere on these boards!

[player1]

What I don't like in Firaxis PR.

After a first patch guys from Firaxis posted several threads about bugs and unit balance.

That's OK.

So they are going to do some unit rebalancing.

But why not have discusson with Firaxis team about these issuses?
Like this:

A guy from Firaxis:
-What do you think about giving tanks defense of 10?
-What do you think about giving cavalry movemnt of 2?
-Do you have some suggestion about musketeer modification?
-No, that won't work in Civ3, since AI won't use it properly because...



What bothers me is that this way, we need to wait 2 moths to get patch, and then there will still be lot of unbalances. So we'll need to wait another 2 month to resolve new unbalances, etc...
That's to much time for solving unbalances. They'll need a whole year just to solve that with this speed.

Now, main use of pathes in gaming industry is BUG SOLVING, not balance fixes.

But,
good games use pathes for fixing unbalances (for. ex. look Stracraft).


SO I PROPOSE:
Let's Firaxis make one nice bic file called balance_fix_beta1.bic, and distibute it here on Apolyton.
Then some players will play with that "upgrade", even seperate tournament could be made that way.
Then people should comment new balance issuses on appropriate thread.
Then using plyers FEEDBACK, Firaxis could make balance_fix_beta2.bic and etc...
Until, new patch become released with last balance_fix_betaX.bic as default rules.


Isn't that much faster and more productive. (its like some sort of public beta testing)

New units stats (and other) won't make new bugs, so this won't delay new patches.

But it will give Civ3 more gamebalance FASTER.

More gamebalance more gameplay.
More gameplay more fans.
More fans more MONEY.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Grumbold
Anything they may be working on that their publisher is paying them for can have an NDA attached. If a Firaxian came here and gave out information that was not approved for release they could cost the company a lot of money and lose their job. After the mistakes made earlier with promising multiplayer it may well be the NDA got tightened this time. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Its exactly the same policy many other developers have to work under. You make it sound like Firaxis is abnormal for keeping tight lipped. On the contrary, they were uncharacteristically forthcoming in the past and got burned for it.

Sorry - don't buy it. Corporate barriers, hardline contracts, marketing ploys - I don't care what they call it! The consumer pays their wages, the consumer has the right to know the future of this product. We've kept them in business for over 10 years by supporting them with money and ideas, not to mention the thousands of fan locations and the growing community. They may have reasons for "not saying anything" but until they explain why they can't talk, we are left to draw our own conclusions, and thats my conclusion.

Charles.

[jackshot]

Originally posted by Grumbold
Anything they may be working on that their publisher is paying them for can have an NDA attached. If a Firaxian came here and gave out information that was not approved for release they could cost the company a lot of money and lose their job. After the mistakes made earlier with promising multiplayer it may well be the NDA got tightened this time. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Its exactly the same policy many other developers have to work under. You make it sound like Firaxis is abnormal for keeping tight lipped. On the contrary, they were uncharacteristically forthcoming in the past and got burned for it.

Go back and read your comment again. Nowhere do you admit the consumer has the right to have any interest in the matter.

NDA's are a good, useful, indeed neccessary business tool. But they have to exist in the real world, a world where customer attitudes matter.

Look, it's not a big thing. But I paid my $50, I am intrigued but not satisfied. Many others share this view either in part or in whole - the game was rushed I think we are agreed. I am a real person with a life and I want to know, three months after purchase, whether this is all there is to be (fine, I'll move on) or whether fixes are in order (I'll stick around). Fair is fair, just quit the patch tease. Sheesh, I'm not even asking for a release date. The whole company seems scared to death by what they can't do, instead of promoting what they can.

And I agree, threads about projected maybe patches are a complete waste of time....

[Argos65987]

Every game I've ever beta-tested had and NDA attached. We were even warned that no matter how bad the forums ever got we were not to say anything. It doesn't matter if you "buy it", Charles, it is the truth.

The consumer pays their wages,

Are you for real! I bet when a cop stops you for speeding you yell at him that your taxes pay his salary, so he better go get you a cup of coffee.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Bilas
Archaetus I agree with everything you said! You are just keeping it real!

But I think your comments will fall on deaf ears with Firaxis and as for Mark he will just give you some B-S.

I always say a little good PR from Firaxis would do wonders and again please don't tell me they are so busy. They have enough time to com on these boards and Slap people around especially when it comes to Money! Just ask that guy named CharelsFarley(sp) that they seem to be arguing with somewhere on these boards!

Yeah I was ignored until I mentioned money and profits, Dan couldn't resist throwing in his two cents.

Charles.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by player1
But why not have discusson with Firaxis team about these issuses?

Because we've tried that, that's why everyone's flipping out (including me), Firaxis doesn't listen, and will not break policy to save a little face and keep their already damaged reputation from falling to pieces. I mean get real, it's only a game, not some government file - tell us what we need to know and stop being ridiculous with all this silence crap.

Charles.

[player1]

Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
Because we've tried that, that's why everyone's flipping out (including me), Firaxis doesn't listen, and will not break policy to save a little face and keep their already damaged reputation from falling to pieces. I mean get real, it's only a game, not some government file - tell us what we need to know and stop being ridiculous with all this silence crap.
Charles.

So why don't try it agian?
I haven't seen anybody asking about such discussion.
Nor Firaxis responding about such suggestion.


Anyway,
trolling doesn't help, it just drives them away.



Also,
having balancer.BICs between patches could make things more interesting.

[player1]

...
or maybe these forums are just to crowded for such thing (to much noise)

Maybe someting as Civ3-Firaxis mailing list?

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Argos65987
Every game I've ever beta-tested had and NDA attached. We were even warned that no matter how bad the forums ever got we were not to say anything. It doesn't matter if you "buy it", Charles, it is the truth.

"It doesn't matter if you buy it" -- did you all see that? You're damn rights it matters if I "buy it" -- I'm not going to roll over and let some game company or any other company trample me with policy and chicken sh_t marketing ploys just because they don't wanna use resources to fix their mistakes. In reality the company is 100% responsible for customer satisfaction. Ofcoarse there is the occasional tyrant out there who doesn't care about the customer, but those types of business' usually have trillions of dollars and lawyers in their pocket. I doubt very much that a small game company can get away with it. But we'll see -- let the games begin.

Are you for real! I bet when a cop stops you for speeding you yell at him that your taxes pay his salary, so he better go get you a cup of coffee.

No, I usually accept the consequences of my actions. However there was this one time when a cop arrested me for a crime I didn't commit, and with overwhelming evidence and a good lawyer, I took him to court and won. The moral is: just because you think Firaxis has the right to hide behind policy, and ignore it's consumers -- doesn't mean they'll get away with it. And when the truth comes out, you're whole gripe to me will be a big pointless naive remark.

Charles.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by player1
...
or maybe these forums are just to crowded for such thing (to much noise)

Maybe someting as Civ3-Firaxis mailing list?

That's what I'm trying to explain to you, we've tried everything in the book to get through to them. They responded either vaguely or with sarcasm, it's no use. Believe me, if you thought of a way to communicate with them, we've already tried it.

Charles.

[Argos65987]

It's not a gripe. NDA's exist. They are a fact, whether you think it's fair or not, like it or not. It just is. And by the statement that it doesn't matter whether you "buy it" does not refer to a monetary transaction, it refers to whether you accept a fact, that being that NDAs exist, and some people believe that when they sign a paper saying the will do something or refarin from doing something, they follow through with their promise.

The cop thing was a joke, lighten up Mr. Farley

[kimmygibler]

"Furthermore I think all threads with the subject 'where is the patch?' should be closed until Firaxis anounces something. Just my opinion, otherwise continue pointless bickering."

I disagree. Many people are simply coming only to check if there has been news of a patch. If I check back in a couple weeks, I may have missed some relevant information. I am happy there are always "where's the patch" threads. If there are none I will start one myself.

[child of Thor]

Pssst....Yin and others, from an 'old' game called Kingdoms to Civ + CivII,I've always loved the tbs game best. I and a few Civ mad friends have just had our best 'civ' type game yet! its kinda off topic but as there seems to be alot of apathy around with Civ3 i just wanted to share this small crumb of 'civ' comfort. It was a LAN multiplayer game of CTP2
No really! I got the courage together to try one of the Mods(Med mod) and many hours later the verdict was complete-decent diplomacy and combat had been enjoyed - those Mod guys are hero's and even if i never buy another Activision game again, at least they left the modders with an option, and me and my mates with a game we can play untill Civ4 is released