two months have passed, and we have no idea when next patch will be released

[kimmygibler]

Mouse - "If FIRAXIS said that something was to be included in the patch and the patch didn't have that change after all when it was released, you can bet your last kidney that the Apolyton forum would have a dozen threads complaining about the omissions inside a day."

This argument is idiotic. Why would they care about complaint threads? They certainly don't care now. As it is there must be three dozen threads complaining about lack of any feedback. They don't care. Plus, they already did promise things that were not included in the game leading many to complain about it being rushed. They didn't really care about that. Why would they?

[player1]

Originally posted by kimmygibler
They don't care. Plus, they already did promise things that were not included in the game leading many to complain about it being rushed. They didn't really care about that. Why would they?

Maybe, they don't want to make same mistake twice?

[MarkG]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lack of concern for the product and its future

Originally posted by jackshot
The truth of the record is that Firaxis deliberately shys away from creating any definite "truth" of what is to happen.

I don't know why. It is odd, that is all I know about it.

read a certain quote on my sig. perhaps you'll get some ideas

[Robert]

Pherhaps it's a good idea to make a summary of all questions Firaxis has already answered during the past 4 months.......... (including the answers of course)

and a summary of all regular complains / rants, so every @sshole on this forum can check out this list to check out if their rant already exists.

[Zealot]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Pherhaps it's a good idea to make a summary of all questions Firaxis has already answered during the past 4 months.......... (including the answers of course)

and a summary of all regular complains / rants, so every @sshole on this forum can check out this list to check out if their rant already exists.

MoO 3 section first, please!

*sprints away*

[Cesa]

How about the AI tech trading bug?

I have a question, and even if it might sound as it is about the patch, it isn't.

Here goes, someone wrote this in another thread, a quote from a chat:

[draz2] is the trading tech bug being fixed? where comp trades in your turn?

[Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS] I don't think so. I think Soren likes it that way...though I'm not sure

My question is, is this still Soren's opinion (if it ever was)? Note that this is not me asking whether the bug will be fixed in the patch, as I understand that there is a possibility you tried to fix it, but it turned out to be too complicated. What I want to know is if you consider this a bug, or are satisfied of the way it works. I ask since this is the single reason I don't play the game.

[CharlesUFarley]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lack of concern for the product and its future

Originally posted by MarkG
sorry, the truth is only for those who are willing to go out and find it. it's not for old almost-bored-to-death sitting-in-their-chairs-dreaming-of-glory-civ2-days people

Well regardless of where I'm sitting, and which version of the Civ Genre I prefer, and bored to death - I still don't believe you.

Charles.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Pherhaps it's a good idea to make a summary of all questions Firaxis has already answered during the past 4 months.......... (including the answers of course)

and a summary of all regular complains / rants, so every @sshole on this forum can check out this list to check out if their rant already exists.

No, because that would be a good idea! Who would ever dare to get organized? I'm sure if the @ssholes who started all this fuss did their job in the first place, the other @ssholes wouldn't be here complaining about @ssholes. Make sense?

Charles.

[CharlesUFarley]

Re: Lack of concern for the product and its future

Originally posted by MarkG
read a certain quote on my sig. perhaps you'll get some ideas

Something about "we try to respond to things that we have confimed to be definate, and unless it is confirmed we cannot respond" isn't that the same thing as saying "we can't tell you anything until the development is finished, or 1 week prior to release"? I mean I can understand that they can't tell us things they do not even know, but in this case they KNOW what they're working on, but don't want to give us mid-development details. We're not asking for the "definates" we're asking for the "development ideas" what they 'intend' on implimenting and what they can't impliment - this would give the community a better leg to stand on, and it would deminish any false hopes, and create a platform of realism between the community and Firaxis - rather than this Area-51 behaviour.

Basically they're saying that they won't give us inside development details until the patch/xp is finished. I think that's bogus because what if we don't like the changes, or the changes weren't enough. It's a "what you get, is what you get" kind of attitude. They've completely cut the community out of the loop on this one IMO. And why is it so ridiculous for them to understand that perhaps the community just might make this game better!

Charles.

[Grumbold]

Anything they may be working on that their publisher is paying them for can have an NDA attached. If a Firaxian came here and gave out information that was not approved for release they could cost the company a lot of money and lose their job. After the mistakes made earlier with promising multiplayer it may well be the NDA got tightened this time. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Its exactly the same policy many other developers have to work under. You make it sound like Firaxis is abnormal for keeping tight lipped. On the contrary, they were uncharacteristically forthcoming in the past and got burned for it.

[Pythagoras]

I dont think this argument is getting anywhere, nor is it productive. Furthermore I think all threads with the subject 'where is the patch?' should be closed until Firaxis anounces something. Just my opinion, otherwise continue pointless bickering.

[Argos65987]

Grumbold speaks the truth.

Pythagoras is right on target.

[jackshot]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lack of concern for the product and its future

Originally posted by MarkG
read a certain quote on my sig. perhaps you'll get some ideas


"We try to respond to questions which we know the answers to and which we can answer because the feature is confirmed" - Dan Magaha, Civ3 Christmas Chat

Then I'm left with the impression that the company still has no specific idea just what they are going to do with all the manhours they've spent since November.

If that were true, it would be a significant fact in it's own right. But I think it's more likely they know, and they're not telling. Which is their right, of course - but it does render your point rather moot.

But perhaps you are refering to the policy they SHOULD be using, in which case I wholeheartedly agree. My point all along has been that SHOULD is not a driving force in their discussions. That feature has not been confirmed.

The policy is fine, but it is getting to the point that if it were honest there would be some confirmations on the table by now. Patience is a virtue, but time is its own judge.

[FrantzX]

Other game companies don't give notice of what's in a patch until the patch is released or just before. Why should Firaxis be any different?

[Archaetus]

Jesus. Here's my 2 cents.

We NEED a patch. Everyone knows this, including Firaxis.

We NEED a common place to go and look for answers. Mark I'm new to the forum and can say as an unbiased observer that you're being extemely difficult. If there's answers, show us. Sure we can spend our time searching for them but alot of us have other things to do and already probably spend more time than we should at this forum.

We NEED Firaxis employees to grow up. Why pop in and stir things up by giving a half-a** answer. Sure, I'm glad that at least someone's listening, but don't respond in ways that will cause a 5 page b****ing session.

We all NEED to chill the **** out. I understand the frustration on both sides and can't seem to get as worked up about it as others do. I like Civ 3. I'm dissapointed by it too. If Firaxis makes another game like it, I'll just stop buying their products. They could care less about me b****ing, so I don't waste my breath. It sucks, but it's true. That being said, I hope they DO care about the constructive criticism in this forum. If not, its their loss, and it will show in their ever so important profits.

I think the solution is this.

Mark: Give us somewhere to find the answers.

Firaxis: Answer the questions you can and nothing else. Giving us the run around by providing hints to answers to questions that can't be answered causes nothing but grief. Although many may disagree with me here, I think a simple "I can't answer that" is better than "I can't answer that but I'll give you a hint". Save us all some grief, fix this abomination, and save your reputation before its too late. There's alot of dissatisfied customers out there, and they're not just those who always criticize who are dissapointed. You chose to take on the task of delivering a new and improved 3rd installment of Civ and failed. Now fix it.

Everyone else: Calm down. If Firaxis says they can't answer, they can't answer. If you feel they should, state that and move on. By continually nagging them we end up with the kind of crap that has happened here. If they don't fix what they've done, to hell with them. Criticism is the best thing Firaxis can ask for but there's a fine line between constructive and destuctive criticism.

I"m not jumping on anyone's bandwagon. I'm just trying to step back and see this from an unbiased view.