Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Top 10 Fun-Killers in Civ3

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Top 10 Fun-Killers in Civ3

    These are based on my own experience. Your mileage may vary. I've tried to steer clear of things that can be "fixed" using the editor, like crippling corruption, etc.

    10. Anticlimactic Victories

    I remember my first victory. Diplomatic, it was. Ugh.

    Here we were at the defining moment. A vote was about to be cast in the United Nations, which I had built. I was a candidate. Catherine was the other. I paused a moment to reflect over the game. Had I been diplomatic enough? I hoped so. I had certainly helped Egypt to rise from the ashes of its war with the Romans. And I had helped to balance the Romans as well with money and technology, once the Egyptians caught up.

    The suspense was palpable. I clicked OK.

    Pop! A message box declared me the winner. A message box? Hmmm... Surely, this must be the harbinger of a beautiful movie that will show me arriving victorious in Paris and taking my place in the UN. Nope. Nada. Nothing else. Just the message box.

    In the next game, I turned off diplomatic victory, only to find that I got the same reward for winning by culture — an abrupt, plain, meaningless message box.

    9. Air Recon Bug

    Based on the Christmas chat, I have reason to believe that my posts might have been set to be ignored by Dan and/or Jeff. I've reported this bug, but don't know whether they've seen the report (or care).

    But it has certainly made the whole notion of reconning a border area moot. There's no sense in investing in the jets if one will simply wipe out the other's recons. For me, this removes part of the fun of the attack planning. I have to fly blind.

    8. Civilopedia Inaccesible in Critical Places

    I've no idea, when I'm trading, whether I'm trading value for value because I can't get to the documentation without abandoning the negotiation.

    And when deciding whether this is the city that should have X Wonder, I have to close the city screen to find out whether this is the Wonder that does Y.

    Chasing down information that ought to be readily available is not my idea of fun.

    7. AI Ignoring Requests to Leave

    This one has caused me to have to fight wars for which I hadn't prepared and which made no sense contextually.

    Whenever I cross a border, and the AI asks me to leave, by the second request, if I haven't left, I'm either shoved out or required to declare war. The AI, on the other hand, is allowed to meander with its workers wherever and whenever it pleases.

    Thus, my strategic goals often must be put aside to deal with this annoyance. It's not fun to be jerked around for no good reason.

    6. Empty Technologies

    I really don't understand the point of this. If it's going to take 12 turns to get to something, why not just make the something take 12 turns?

    There is no reward feedback whatsoever in getting a stepping-stone technology. It's just a game nuisance. And the problem is that, in Civ3, there are so many of them.

    5. Domestic Nag

    Argh! I hate that woman!

    If I've told her once, I've told her five hundred times (literally) that I don't want to build a hospital. And I've told her just like I've moved workers — one at a time.

    For the period while she's nagging, the game devolves into a meaningless and mindless (and long) series of click click click click click. Inevitably, as my mind wanders from the game, I click when an actually important message pops up, not meaning to, but just lost in the banal rhythm.

    Nag, go away! Forever!

    4. Unfinished Editor

    Once you've become familiar with the game, you get to the point that you know what to expect. It all becomes quite predictable. Yes, there is infinite replay, but infinite replay of the same song over and over.

    A well developed editor could help change this. Interesting starting locations and terrain layouts could provide a different look and feel for the game.

    I suspect that the editor has gotten the most attention, and should be majorly improved with the next patch.

    3. Subliminal Messages

    Oh, lordy. They fly by, often three or four at a time, and display for a split second as the map jerks around in spastic fits. There's pollution somewhere, starvation elsewhere, and cultural expansion God-only-knows-where.

    Hunting down what actually happened at the beginning of a turn is tedious and fraught with futility. Pollution looks so much like a mountain top that it is almost impossible to find zoomed out.

    It would be wonderful if these could be listed for review after the map spasms have ceased.

    2. No Group Movement

    The game all but disappears underneath the achingly dull unit movement interface. Enough has been said about this that most everyone understands what a game killer it is.

    1. Bizarre Unit Activation Sequencing

    Yep. Even more than tedious unit movement, this one just completely ruins the game for me.

    In fact, the interface becomes my enemy, as I fight it to try and maintain some semblence of continuity. Guessing what might activate next, as the command buttons morph and rearrange, is a complete Lotto.

    Having to navigate all around a map with extremely limited zoom and clutzy scrolling mechanisms, while trying to maintain a train of thought in a theater of battle, or in an area where you're clearing jungle, is impossible.

    The top two features, in particular, have forced me to modify my own playing style to accomodate the game. Fewer workers. Smaller map. Constricted growth.

    And it's still not fun. It's still tedious as hell. Bummer.
    "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatum." — William of Ockham

  • #2
    I have a wonderful idea: WHY DON'T YOU STOP PLAYING CIV 3 AND GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE???

    I mean no disrespect, but it's kinda funny to read posts like this... and I bet you're gonna play another game first thing as soon as you get some free time! I personaly like Civ 3 and some of the things you mentioned annoy me to, but overall, it's not that bad...
    Big Kay-Ooh

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Libertarian
      And it's still not fun. It's still tedious as hell. Bummer.
      And STILL you keep on playing it, and STILL you keep on posting topics here that complain & whine, instead of suggesting changes & tweaks to the game in a more constructive manner.

      Why not try the latter approach, for a while? Or if its seems hopeless: Leave.
      Last edited by Ralf; December 22, 2001, 08:48.

      Comment


      • #4
        What do you mean by "more constructive"?

        I've been told that the people who've pocketed a portion of my money needn't "waste time" being considerate of me. Why must I give them both money and supplication?
        "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatum." — William of Ockham

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Libertarian
          I've been told that the people who've pocketed a portion of my money needn't "waste time" being considerate of me. Why must I give them both money and supplication?
          Libetarian - have you any idea how many games that I have bought over the years, more or less on inpulse - just to realise that It wasnt cut exactly like I wanted it?

          I have played those games for an hour or so - then put it on some dust-collecting shelve. Or take it for a second-hand trade-in, for another game in exchange.

          Its no big deal, so get over it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Knockout
            I have a wonderful idea: WHY DON'T YOU STOP PLAYING CIV 3 AND GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE???
            Thanks for that great piece of literary work, worthy of a nobel peace prize for literature. As a matter of fact I believe that the aforementioned line is better then The Great Gatsby, The Scarlet Letter and the History of the World Part One combined. Thanks so much for gracing us with that one line. The world is definatley a different place now that I have read that.

            Comment


            • #7
              CB2034

              Anyway, this list is IMO both fair and constructive. Except for 7.

              About 10:
              Agreed. Even a quick movie would be good for each victory. Anyone remember a game called Carrier Command? Well, after playing it for over a month, i finally finished the game. I got a box that said "You Win" and that was it...
              It really makes your victory seem pathetic.
              I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).

              Comment


              • #8
                I have a wonderful idea: WHY DON'T YOU STOP PLAYING CIV 3 AND GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE???
                Hey, give the guy a break -all the points he mentioned I agree with-some minor 3,6,7,8,10-some major 1,2,4,5-not sure about 9.

                anyway Id like to mail this list directly to the patch team (if there is such a thing).

                I'd call it constructive even if only one of those guys read this post.
                Last edited by Evil_Eric_4; December 22, 2001, 12:30.
                Die-Bin Laden-die

                Comment


                • #9
                  I, for one do think that Libertarian had made quite a few valid points. His post was a far cry from the usual "my tanks got beaten by a spearmen!" type of posts.

                  for example, I do find the domestic advisor's popups about switching production to an aquaduct or a hospital annoying because I wanted to keep my high curruption cities in a WLTKD state to get the shield bonuses, a preference option to turn it off might be nice.

                  also, a click-able & zoom-able summary of events such as occuring pollution, expanding borders, new/exaused resource, etc.. would be helpful. So that all I have to do to zoom to the event is to click on the summary. As of right now, I use the 'Top 5 Cities' screen to see if I have any pollution in my empire, because it gets scrolled by so fast at the start of turn, and becomes easy to miss/forget.

                  Civilopedia not available where it's most needed, and air recon bug are all legit complaints and work against the flow of the game..

                  now, a less predictable AI might be nice as well..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree with Libertarian. He brings up some very valid points. To me, most of these items don't kill the game for me. I'm "lucky" enough to play the game relatively lackadaisically (compared to most of you here at Apolyton), so I'm not burdened by "100's of workers" and other such extreme numbers. Even so, these items do contribute to boredom and tedium for me. These are valid points that need to be heard. They are not the usual whining of "I didn't get my way!" 4-year old foot stomping. They are some very insightful, in most cases, very obvious problems with the basic function of the game. Fixing these items would really put some serious polish on the game.

                    As for all the other types of complaints "My spearman beat your tank" and other game design decisions, they, for the most part, can be edited to everyone's hearts content; let's face it, everyone has a different idea of how strong each unit should be versus another. This, of course, obviates the need for an extremely versatile editor. That's where all of these types of complaints should be directed toward: a great editor.

                    Thanks, Libertarian, for constructively spelling out some basic ideas that could seriously improve the mechanics of gameplay and create a memorable and lasting experience in the Civ tradition.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A nice summary. I don't entilrely agree with all of them or the order in which you rank them but by and large all these things do detract from an otherwise polished game. #7 especially gets me annoyed because you really need two levels of message like they get: a 'please leave soon' and a 'leave in 1 turn or your units in my country will be destroyed'. The latter could then leave you with a free attack against any remaining trespassers without needing a full declaration of war. There are many examples of troops straying over the borders and being captured/shot down/forced to land where no full war has resulted. It certainly should not be necessary for the player or the AI to declare war just to assert their own border rights. The CtP 'kick out' order was quite useful in that respect, even if they came back again every few turns.
                      To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
                      H.Poincaré

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah...
                        Great list Libertarian


                        One can only hope that they fix EVERYTHING on the list in later patches that can be fixed. My biggest fear is that sales will continue to drop, and they will make a business decision to not even bother. I just pray that they will show the proper respect to it's customer base by continuing to do everything in their power to make the needed adjustments.

                        Again, I see a lot of good things in the game... But as Libertarian's list points out... There are still MANY, MANY things that can be fixed that would lead to a much better game.
                        Keep on Civin'
                        RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This game, in its current state, is too much work for too little fun.

                          I would like to say something in response to the "Just quit playing and never post here again!" camp.

                          I understand why it seems strange that ppl still post about a game they don't like much and have quit playing.

                          It is strange.

                          But I think a big part of the reason is that civ isn't just another game. Its a big important game that has been loved in the past and that ppl have developed an emotional attachment to. This sounds weird maybe, but it is no worse than someone who developed an emotional attachment to a pro sports team, which no one would DARE mock.

                          Its hard to just walk away from civ like you would from some no name generic game.

                          I think emotional attachment is at least some of the reason ppl are such ardent defenders of a game that is so disappointing. They have an emotional investment in civ too, yet here the game is missing something badly ... I think some ppl hit cognitive dissonence. Civ3 is supposed to be great, I want it to be great very badly ... well darn it, it HAS to be great, even if its not, so I'm going to see it as great rather than experience huge disappointment.

                          I don't presume to speak for others, I know a lot of ppl really like it. But I think some ppl might fit that description ... because I did until I just faced the hard facts, even though I didn't want to.

                          This game, in its current state, is too little fun for too much work. Something needs to be done to minimize the work so you can get to the fun parts more often.

                          I gave up on Civ 2-3 weeks after it came out. I showed back up here for the patch ... but it was mostly typographical fixes. I guess I'm still here in the slim hopes major fixes in an expansion pack will be made, and also for the history / politics threads that sometimes come up. I'm still here because I like civ a lot and really want it to work, unlike a no-name game I would just abandon.

                          In response to the thread, I switched off diplomatic and cultural victories immediately after I experienced them. I don't see any easy way to fix them ... I don't really mind, I am happy with just plain conquest victory anyway.

                          The only things on the list otherwise that I feel are important are 1 and 2. Stack movement is absolutely crucial! How could they not have included this? Sequential activation would sure help out too, but I could make do without it if stack movement was implemented. Again I don't see any good reason why this was not included to begin with.

                          I would like to add to the list not having huge armies completely vanish due to cultural defection. This kills the game for me. I would like to again suggest my solution of using the diplomatic kick out function to kick those units out to the nearest border, or possibly to the nearest city, and possibly damaging or deleting some units.

                          Thanks for reading.
                          Good = Love, Love = Good
                          Evil = Hate, Hate = Evil

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good list. All these things would be a great addition to the game.



                            Now that you have made the definitive list of the top 10 problems and requested features can you just stop posting your whines. We all aggree with you. Maybe the developers will too. Take your personal satisfaction from that. You've done your good deed, now go away.
                            Sorry....nothing to say!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh, all right you can stay.

                              Thanks again for the list.
                              Sorry....nothing to say!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X