Desires For Future Civ3 Patches

[star mouse]

yes ... bring back irrigation of hills ...

[zergling]

Sell units to other civ

How about the ability to sell units to other civ. Add some option in the diplomacy like what unit to sell/buy, how much each unit cost and how many units to buy.. This way we can help out weak nation to defend themselves against stronger, agressive nation without actually enter any war and without actually giving away valuable technology to them.

[Alinestra Covelia]

I'd quite like the idea of being able to build rivers on your own. As it stood in Civ2, rivers were counted as a terrain improvement, but they could only ever be placed during the initial map-making - afterwards there was no method of placing river tiles.

Something I have often wondered is whether or not it would be a good idea to include a few ships capable of travelling along rivers. Thus, in the same way as coastal cities' trade and food benefits were balanced by the risk of piracy, so too would river-based cities run the risk of naval bombardment as a return for their trade benefits.

[Pingu:]

Someone mayd have said this before, but the Helicopter unit i slacking the ability to pick up a unit from the remote wilderness, and transport them back to the city it's based in. This would be very very useful, and really should be there to make the unit realistic...


Pingu:

[Pyrodrew]

An AI that wants to WIN!

1.Editor... a GOOD Editor.

2.A better late game AI. The main problem with the AI now is it doesn't realize the game ENDS & there is ONLY 1 winner! Civ2 did MUCH better to recognize this & balance the power in the late game by the weaker AIs teaming up against the leading superpower (usually a human player, but not always). Civ3 FAILS to do this. Civ3 AIs don't care about winning or stopping the leader from winning at all. In my most recent game (with patch) the Babylonians (Aggressiveness 4 & a leading superpower) peacefully allowed me to complete my Spaceship only if I gave them what they wanted... Ivory. That's it IVORY! They gave up trying to win the game for some Ivory (which I had plenty)!!! India (2nd strongest superpower) didn't want anything... they just let me win. I miss the AI Civs (from Civ2) teaming up to try to stop me rather than letting me wipe them out individually or watching them kill each other as I pick up the pieces.

This amplifies the complaints about the game being boring in the Industrial & Modern Age as well... there comes a point where the AI is no challenge because they do NOT know how to balance the power in the game. Civ2 AIs did, please bring that back.

[hoppy39000]

i agree in most respects... the AI is EXTREMELY over aggressive at expansion, even in regent lvl always putting city on any small shore spot, ive seen ship go 2/4 around continent just to settle 1 desert sqaure uncovered by culture , make the "culture border" same as city territory in CIV2.....make outer border flexible when against better culture...

2. in mid ages after map covered AI doesnt respevct borders...ie go around you to fight enemy on other side ...

and at end AI just eliminates all other ai powers....want there to be a stand off mode....not just race to build a ship....today more than 1 power has the abilty.. to buld a spaceship... doesnt mean your civ ends..


Ai should be less aggresive in beginning ...and more even at end...

[PGM]

my suggestions

Copy from my post in the "what needs to be done to make this game great" thread:


* transcription beginning *

I believe Civ3 is a fantastic game (v. 1.16f).
Although it seems like it was rushed (late game can be boring due to lack of interesting choices, pollution, lack of group movement, ...), the early game is really exciting.
But it can be improved, and here are my suggestions:


Group movement.
Enough said.

Domestic advisor on-screen message: show pictures
When something has been built in a city, the advisor comes in immediately to say so, and to allow you to choose the next production in a list. This list should have pictures too.

Military advisor: view by unit
Allow us to see which units are under production in "view by unit", like in "view by city".

Military advisor: show number of captured/lost workers
Whenever I want to know how many "slaves" I have, I don't want to count them by myself.

Domestic advisor: a (new) maintenance screen (Civ2)
Allow us to see how many of each city improvement we have (similar to the one in Civ2), how much their accumulated maintenance costs, allow us to sell a whole group right there (ex.: If I'd built Hoover Dam, I could now sell the whole lot of Coal Plants with a single click).

Map/City messages: ALWAYS center them.
Sometimes I get messages in the corner of the screen, barely noticeble.

Science Advisor: show remaining goals
In civ2, we were able to choose the next tech to discover based on a specific goal (city improvements / units / Wonders), which we could pick out of the list of remaining goals to achieve.

Cultural advisor: number of turns to culturally grow
Show how many turns are left for each city to grow culturally.

Diplomatic screen: trade units
This would be so interesting, to trade units for money, techs, ...

Hurry Production: default action should always be NO.
I've killed too many citizens with an accidental key press.

Terrain improvement replacement: default action should always be YES.
It's a very common action in the Despotism-Monarchy transition and late game.

Preferences memory
The game forgets some preferences each time we load a game: grid; activated types of treaties in foreign advisor (ex.: war and military alliances only); rolled-out categories in diplomacy screens (ex.: resources, luxuries, maps, gold, ...).

Domestic advisor/city view: allow right-click access to Civilopedia

Units: Patrol mode

Units: Sleep mode

Cruise missiles: target 1-hit point ships
To target a ship that's in the red, I have to keep "B" pressed down, otherwise this doesn't work.

Workers: airlift
I can't understand why I can't airlift a worker.

Armies: pillage
Yes I am aware I can change this in the editor, but anyway...

Summary replay: forward to any date
I refuse to remain watching this for over 5 minutes.

Editor: a good one


* transcription end *


I also agree with Sir Ralph's suggestion on the diplomatic level:

diplomatic overview
It's certainly boring to request diplomatic meetings with ALL your opponents just to check what you're trading what whom, and for how many turns more; also, a Secret Services button in the diplomatic screen would surely be helpful; "If one offers me a MPP, I'd like to see with whom he's allied, at war, has MPP, RoP or trade embargoes, without leaving the negotiations. " [quoting Sir Ralph]).

[star mouse]

Interactive advisors

Here's an idea I've just had.

Make the advisors more interactive. The advisors should have a few clickable links that you can click on for more information, thus finding out what you want straight away instead of waiting for the advisor to tell you.

For example, when negotiating with another civilisation, the Foreign Advisor could have a few links such as "possible trades", "military power", etc.

In general, the game needs more timesavers. I miss being able to play a complete game in a day.

[sun_tzu_159]

Hi all,

Just some general thoughts on making the game more atmospheric.

After about 1200AD the game is too slow - takes too many minutes per turn - speed it up.

Civ3 needs wonder movies as a reward for players patience. It is the best part of Civ2. The movies and music for the Statue of Liberty and Cure for Cancer are amazing, and the Shakespeare Theatre thing is brilliant. I am sure there is much scope for the production of such movies in Civ3.

The title sequence is good, you could imagine that you do fly pasts across the river to various stages of construction of a Pyramid. Shots of a bustling harbour with the colossus looming in the distance. A trip along the Nile to the mighty port of Alexandria with a journey to and into the Great Library, could even pass the mighty Pharos lighthouse if already done. etc. It will add atmosphere and more pressure - It is always a desparate race in Civ2 to get that wonder just to see the movie, never mind the benefits to your civ.

These should be something to stir the heart and soul and wake you up after watching a ship take 40 minutes to reach a small island you wanted to investigate, having long ago forgotten why. It is a reward for watching your city taking 40 turns at 5 minutes a turn to build something and would be better than a still picture. If people don't like them they can be stopped with a mouse click as in CTP2. I also thought that a theatre of movies could be available so that if another civ built a wonder then you could view that movie in the game also.

OK - that said the game is brilliant in the early stages, I always enjoy the exploring bit when you dont know where anything is. Placing that first city is crucial. How long to leave it, the AI has probably built at least five cities in the first ten turns. Oh dear theres that barbarian settlement with the 15 horsemen of the apocalypse, 30 turns of production wasted and an undefended city.

Culture in general - Brilliant idea, I go for the cultural victory most of the time. Just pump those border cities full of cultural improvements. I have even lost some cities to the AI culture by neglecting this. They have sneaked up and built a city close by and done the same thing as I do to them.

A nice addition though would be a news of the world feature where you are kept informed of world events like great battles between civs, or significant world events like the fall of Troy, sacking of Alexandria, Great Fire of London etc. All these could be dated and kept in a viewable history of the world file which builds like a Great Library for historically significant events of your game. (Not just the building of Wonders)

Make those end of game statistics and animated map available throughout the game. Obviously only showing the civs you know about at the time of running. Its just so that you feel part of the wider world.

The changing of Civilisations over time. The Sumerians are not in any Civ program but they preceeded all the Middle East civs. Some of the civs like Americans did not exist. The introduction of the idea that your Civ will change its name to suit the year it is in the game and position at the time. So if you are second and it is 500BC you turn into a fledgling Roman state with 2 or 3 emperors and a monarchy to control. If you are first in 1870 you change to the Americans and be a democracy. It would disrupt the flow of your plans and introduce unpredictability (New England won!!!) just as real cultural upheaval does even today.

This is an extension of the idea of cultural expansion. The idea of one Civ dominating a large area on its own is not historically true, great empires evolved from many smaller states annexing, aligning, trading etc and gradually forming the same culture like upper and lower Egypt for example. The break up of these areas would also be inevitable as in the situation of modern day Yugoslavia. So also you could have the introduction of areas of your empire which are held by you only by vote of the people or during the lifetime of a unifying leader - independent but dominated by your culture. If you do something they do not like, maybe change of government, attacking another Civ, death of great leader then they revolt to another empire but without loss of troops garrisoned (obvious disadvantage as demonstrated by CTP2). Of course you should be warned of such an event so that the action provoking it is avoided - but you may have no choice but to continue on the chosen course and break up of your current empire.

Many technologies have been discovered and lost throughout history. Concrete is a famous one which the Romans had. The sword-making technologies of eastern empires. The navigational skills and use of compass by the Vikings. The idea of losing technologies in events such as
the above cultural changes should be introduced. The technology thing is all too linear and single paced.

The spread of technology across the world is not by scientific endeavour of every culture but it is by x discovers y and it spreads out through cultural and scientific centres so when it is widely known all Civs should be handed a technology.

The introduction of technology does not make everything instantly available. The Greeks and Babylonians knew of electricity but could not develop a way to harness it effectively. When Farraday discovered that electricity could be produced by spinning magnets and coils of wire the uses later thought up for it could not be imagined. I am introducing the idea in the tech tree that you hold a major advance like gunpowder and electricity and through scientific and cultural advance over time uses are invented for it - different uses by different Civs.

For instance gunpowder was used for fireworks but when introduced to Europe it was used to propell large and small objects at people and buildings. Of course this idea would spread and you could introduce to all Civs so that eventually everyone has weapons and firworks using the same material.

Of course if your civ suffers a collapse then some uses for the advance will not be discovered by you and some will be lost by you but the ideas may already have spread to other civs and they would continue to develop ideas - you may then re-acquire what you lost by it spreading back to you. This will give a more two steps forward, one step back look to each civs advance but overall the progress of the world will be forward. The occurrence of a great collapse of several cultures in a short period of time could represent a dark age where all that can be done is to recover lost ground. Also it gives scope for a once tiny culture to spring to the fore in a very short space of time by remaining stable and also for a culture to collapse in a very short space of time through events out of its control - historically true and entirely created by pseudo-randomly placed events.

Another mighty influence upon human history has been natural disasters. The only ones I have seen in regular civ games are global warming - strictly a modern phenomenon.
We can start with erupting volcanos destroying cities (clearly marked on map but can you resist that extra production and food output), a tidal wave wiping out part of that vital coastal farmland. Earthquakes devastating large areas. Floods of river basins. Hurricaines in more tropical areas. A bit of global cooling due to many volcanic eruptions in a period of time. A bit of natural variation in climate over time - getting drier, that desert expands and your farms are gone - getting wetter, that river flooded again. All followed by plagues and diseases to lower the population (a little bit of this already when too many jungle squares around your city).
These disasters could also represent the final straw for a civ and cause collapse of empire.

Finally how about an AI that can learn and has been taught some basic stuff like what the end of the game is so that he can at least make some move against you or unify all civs against you to stop you winning. I remember a game of noughts and crosses which you play against the computer. Bit by bit the computer has learnt all the moves it made that lost the game and you can always only draw and if careless lose in the end. Surely over 600 odd turns the AI can learn something of the human players tactics and counter them by learning not to make losing and stupid moves. Of course the more you play the better the AI is at countering your moves. It would be better than the current massive AI fixing that has had to be done to make it competetive.

In summary what we ask for is a more variable game. The above factors introduce uncertainty to the world. A mighty empire may collapse and have to be rebuilt, the small empire can grow massively with the right management but how long can it hold together. You discovered the advance but how long until your civ develops an idea for it - will someone else get there first. Will you be stopped in your tracks by natural disaster or collapse of empire.

My conclusion is that it will be better than building 15 knights and marching them across the world while controlling 40 odd workers one click and drag at a time.

Regards
AOW

[star mouse]

Editor mods

Allow the player to make the following changes to the game rules in the editor (forgive me if any are already there):

* disable the "free" labourer in each city in the editor.

* allow the player to set any bonuses the city square may have, such as the minimum food, commerce and shields the city square produces.

* the frequency of bonus resources (cows, wheat, game, etc)

In combination, these provide an alternative solution to the ICS problem. ICS works because of the "free" labourer in each city. Take that away and ICS becomes more difficult. To allow all size-1 cities to grow, a city square must produce a minimum of 3 food regardless of terrain. Making bonus tiles more frequent - especially the food ones - also makes it likely that one would be found inside each city radius, allowing a city to grow more easily without the free worker.

[Foot]

1) Make iron, coal, rubber and oil more common. I hate having to fight a war without a certain unit against a civilization that does have that unit just to get a certain resource so I can build that unit.

2) Give civs the ability to research more than one tech at once if you have a certain number of cities. EG for each 20 cities you have, you can research another tech at the same time (it can't be an offshoot of another tech you're currently researching) so a civ with 20 cities could research 2 techs at the same time, a civ with 40 cities could research 3 techs at a time, scientific tribes would be able to research an additional tech for each 15 cities. This would eliminate the problem of being at 2000 ad and still not being able to build any modern units.

3) Make the game end in 4000 AD, thus giving you a chance to play around with all the fun modern toys once you've got them.

4) MAKE THE AI STOP CHEATING.

[Martock]

does anyone know if there is going to be another patch? it's been ages since the last one was posted and if you go to the civ3 website, it's not been updated since 12/28/01!

doesn't paint a pretty picture if you ask me.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Martock
does anyone know if there is going to be another patch? it's been ages since the last one was posted and if you go to the civ3 website, it's not been updated since 12/28/01!

doesn't paint a pretty picture if you ask me.

Yes they're working on it, a couple of the Firaxis people have hinted that they're planning some changes. They just won't say what those changes are yet. Though Jeff did say something about having more game setup features, probably dealing with corruption and resources. So don't get your girdle in a knot. It'll be ready when it's ready, and getting frustrated about it won't speed up the process.

[Martock]

oh i'm not getting frustrated. i stopped playing the game for a bit to satisfy my X-COM urges and spent a month or so with them instead. i just started playing CIV3 again and decided to come back to the site and see if another patch was available. also, after typing my first response above, i went on to do a bit more reading and came across the article from jeff that was done a few days ago. i just wish they'd update their website and let us all know what's going on. that would probably at least keep some of the negativity on the site from spreading.

[Willem]

The other day, while waiting and waiting for my turn to come up, I was thinking that it would be really nice if I didn't have to watch as my automated workers ran around my empire. Wouldn't it be possible for them to simply disappear from the map, and reappear when they reach their destination? I don't need to know where they're going, just what they're doing when they get there. I think that would really cut down on some of this wait time we're facing.