My Conclusions about the Firaxis-Community relations

[jackshot]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS For better or worse, a lot of people interpret "maybe" to mean "yes", and then expectations quickly get set. As I'm sure you're aware, for some, unmet expectations can lead to anger, and bitterness, and this just generally creates a bad situation that we'd rather avoid.

Dan

I'm not an apologist for game companies, but one has to admit the truth of what Dan says. Most companies act this way, and for the reasons Dan said. I think the comments in this thread show they are trying and do care, but hands are tied. I can understand this.

But of course the bottom line is still what ends up on our HD. I, for one, only see long term value in this game if I can get creative with it making scenarios and enjoying the creativity of others. Endlessly whomping the French ain't going to hack it.

Otherwise, I would not want to waste my time playing this, and if there would be anger and bitterness on my part it would be because a decent editor is not released (or released too late to matter) and my time playing was wasted.

There was only enough editor to say there was on on the box, and I can't say I appreciate the sleight of hand. Combined with a lack of assurances of a full editor being developed this is not good - all of my $50 worked just fine and the company doesn't have to wait for me to release the last $10.50 (can't say when, I've been burned promising money in the past, you know).

I understand the problems and I also understand they are all of Firaxis' making. Perhaps they're unavoidable, nothing worth doing in this world is problem-free, but I have to admit it bothers me that the only possibility Firaxis will admit to right now is one of failure.

[yin26]

And as for this entire "Well, we've been burned before" pile of garbarge, why did you get burned?

Because you didn't communicate properly.

And your stellar plan now?

Not to communicate.

Brilliant.

[gachnar]

Originally posted by yin26
And as for this entire "Well, we've been burned before" pile of garbarge, why did you get burned?

Ooooh Oooh! Me! Me!

Could it be because people took pre-release hopes to be final version promises?

If firaxis would have said: "We aren't sure, but we would like to get stacked movement for the final version" everyone would have been disappointed when it wasn't there. If you think they wouldn't have been, you don't know the average gamer very well.

If I was in their position, I wouldn't tell us anything either. There is no possible way to please most of the people here. They can't enjoy a game unless everything is the way they want it, and can't wait to find out what changes are in the works.

Yay Dan. Yay Firaxis. Maybe people here will figure out how the world works now. Support Firaxis, give them suggestions in a respectful manner, and dont demand they acknowledge you. Firaxis will be more willing to work with us all.

I'm frankly shocked they haven't just given up on Civ3 altogether. Everyone seems to think "they suck" and that they can't code, are greedy devil-spawn, lazy, liars, untrustworthy, and probably don't recycle. All because they refuse to tell people things that I would expect they would be prevented from sharing due to an NDA.

It really is like dealing with 15 year olds.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Barnacle Bill


It has been written that Civ3 uses a non-standard FLC file format and off-the-shelf graphics programs don't support it. Is that bum dope?

Also, is Moenir's FLICSter program:
1) Freeware/fully functional shareware available on the net
2) Crippleware available on the net but costs <$50 to register
3) A commercial program costing <$50.
4) A commercial program or crippleware costing $50-$100.
5) A professional tool costing big $$$ that casual modders just won't have.

You know, the original quote's "CivII style" pretty much implies (if admittedly doesn't explicitly promise) a file format that common 2D graphics editors do, like GIF, BMP, etc...

Bill,

Our FLCs have some custom header information added to them that doesn't always jive well with FLC-reading programs, and 3rd party programs don't have the ability to write out this custom header information.

The FLICster program was written by a fan called Moeniir. He and a few other folks asked us for info on how our FLC structure differed from "standard" FLC code, and we gave him the information he needed to write the app.

To my knowledge it's entirely free.

See the relevant thread on Civfanatics:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10208

Dan

[dissent]

I've been in a very similar situation as these Firaxis guys. I worked for an internet company (now out of business, no surprise) that offered a service at a cost to thousands of people. We created a Forum of our own where we could touch base with customers, not only because answers would be available to everyone who visits the forum, but also because we wanted to promote a community (like this one).

I was the voice of that forum for a little over a year. If people had a complaint, issue, or wish list for our service, they posted it in the forum. Of course not everything they asked for was feasable from a development standpoint. So would I just ignore that request, yet answer others? Of course not! If I did such a thing the community would inevitably turn against us, sort of like what we're seeing here at Apolyton with Firaxis. I would answer honestly and people were satisfied with that. In fact, people appreciated me taking the time to keep them in the loop. It showed that I (we) did care.

Of course these were our own forums and that means we were obligated to have a presence there. Firaxis has no such obligation here. In fact, if Dan, Soren, or whoever had never posted here, probably nothing would be thought of it. But since you all do post here on occasion, that tells us that you do indeed care about us, the customers. You also create an obligation to us in many respects. You cannot provide customer service on a handful of issues and pretend the others don't exist. Your customers will realize this and they will be upset. If enough people are interested in an issue, just answer honestly.

For example:

Apolyton Poster: Can we have stacked movement?

Firaxis: Currently Civ3 is not programmed to handle stacked movement, so we really can't add it via a patch. This might be something for the next release or an expansion.

(I am not speculating that this is the case. I just made up an answer that Firaxis might see as being unpopular.)

Sure, this type of answer would be disappointing to me and other players, but if it's the truth then how could it possibly hurt you. People will stop asking about this certain issue and either a) pick another important issue, or b) move on and enjoy the game. You are human and you've created a great game, regardless of whether is has stacked movement. I don't see how you could lose.

[yin26]

gachnar:

Sorry that you like to jump to conclusions. Pretty hard landing sometimes, I guess. Mind telling me what I'm saying again? I suppose you could save some time and not look quite like a whining girl and actually read what I said, but I suppose that's no fun for you, eh?

[jackshot]

Originally posted by dissent
I was the voice of that forum for a little over a year. If people had a complaint, issue, or wish list for our service, they posted it in the forum.

dissent, I do have to say if you weren't in the game business you have no idea what it is like. I'll bet the volume at Firaxis is so high right now that the off switch looks REAL tempting.

MarkG will tell you I'm sure there is nothing like a popular gaming forum, except maybe politics. The unreality of it can be staggering. If it doesn't have anything to do with games or Democrats you don't get any yin26's running around, not to mention the ones who chase him.

[yin26]

So another hops on the bandwagon?

Once again, I give you the 'Read Basic English' challenge: What have I argued for in my posts in this thread? Explain it to me.

[jackshot]

Originally posted by yin26
So another hops on the bandwagon?

Once again, I give you the 'Read Basic English' challenge: What have I argued for in my posts in this thread? Explain it to me.

you talking to me?

[yin26]

Depends. Care to explain what you mean by 'yin26's running around'?

[Guest]

Yin: Why do so many people seem to HATE you??? I only read the forums for Civ 3, are you saying or doing other stuff at other forums that is completely different than your attitude in the Civ 3 forums?

BTW, I think you are right in suggesting that Firaxis needs some help in the PR department.

[jackshot]

Originally posted by yin26
Depends.

you would know. I didn't mean anything other you are here and do what you do, as are the ones who chase you, the bandwagon I think you called them.

Multiplied by many others, it is what is peculiar about this place, these places in general.

Now what was that meaning you would have me discern?

I guess that's my point, people with meanings don't hang around business software forums. Nor do bandwagons.

[yin26]

bigfree1:

LOL! That's a fantastic question...hmmm. I have my theories. No, I'm not posting other places. I suppose I have been branded as the 'anti-Civ3' guy or the 'anti-Firaxis' guy, so it's easy for people to jump on me. Hey, I don't mind people blasting me, my only request is that they actually understand what's posted first.

Too much to ask.

[yin26]

jackshot:

I seem to barely understand what you are saying ... but no matter. Welcome.

[Hoek]

Dan and Lib: what do you think of this idea-use email or private messages for speculative issues. This seems reasonable to me since it wouldn't broadcast tentative plans that could backfire on Firaxis since it would only be an answer to one person. If someone asks "Could you tell me such and such about multiplayer," Dan could ask "could you send me an email or pm" and then answer the question that way. That seems like a good way to smooth things over while respecting Firaxis's need for a bit of secrecy.