Fact: Civ 3 Combat is Rigged

[docken]

Actually this "streaky" combat is now part of my strategy! For example, during combat I have 'tester' units whose sole job is to attack and see what the result is. If I see that they seem to win quite easily, I will usually mobilise my force and go on the offensive- as more often than not these seeded results favour the attacker. I have won many battles this way.

It has reduced warfare to sacrificing crappy units until I get a seed that allows me to completely crush the enemy.

[Wrong_shui]

FACT: Sharks Kill people
FACT: Vending machines kill more people than sharks
FACT: Coconuts kill more people than sharks and vending machines put together.

What do you get from these statistics?

1. If your swimming in the sea and a shark comes at you, dont worry.

2. If you want a can of coke you better be prepared to die.

3. People in countries with cocnut trees laugh at sharks and vending machines coz they're wuss's compared to coconuts.

[Akka]

Originally posted by number6
At least in Civ's 1 & 2 combat seemed more logical. I think this had to do with the fact that modern units had many more hit points than less advanced units.

*cough*
Mmh, are you SURE that Civ 3 fight is REALLY less logical than Civ 1's ?
*cough*

How many HP in Civ 1 ? One ? Oooops...

I do agree that we should be able to set HP on a unit-by-unit basis, though.

[kailhun]

The problem with civ III combat is the subjectivity of combat experience by the player. The memory of combat is probably skewed: remembering the bad experiences but forgetting when you got lucky.

So taking this into account, I do believe the combat system is predictable. On warlord level, indians (me) attacking aztecs. After having run the gauntlet of jaq. warriors and taking the core of the empire, I'm winning the war.
Cavalry armies (three units) walk up to a city and attack. Now, every time the same thing happens. The first one knocks of one or two points of the pikeman, then retreats and the second one comes up who always kills the pikeman. I started to rely on this happening and with succes.
Now as I understand the system, this shouldn't be happening, should it?

I also hate super-units (they won't die!), especially since I don't get them .

Robert

[sophist]

Originally posted by Karhgath
sophist : First, your name fits nicely =)

Hey, them's fighting words! Although I guess I'm asking for it.

Regarding the other bit about small ranges seeming other than random, I think you mean that for the guy who doesn't get probability. I mean, you can't eyeball 5 results and say they're not random. You can never say something wasn't random for certain; you can just say with varying degrees of certainty. He has a completely incorrect conception of what randomness is.

Also, your subjectivity point is well taken.

30 Helens agree: Civ3 combat isn't rigged. It's a fact!

[Alex 14]

Computers can generate random numbers! Sure if your using '/'or '\' or 'Mod' in a mathamatical equation the computer cannot render a completely random number, but what about 'rand'?? A simple piece of code that can generate a random number, if specified this number will have an exact chance of appearing as any other number in the code. For example if you have 1-10 integars, the computer will have a 1/10 chance of generating 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10, unlike humans precieve random actions a computer is fully accurate and will have the same chance of choosing any number.

Therefore I'll go back to my point that computers can generate random numbers, differently to ploting random points on a sheet of paper, and so forth the Civ 3 combat system cannot be perfectly randomized. There is another explanation for the circumstances of my previous game, the combat system is most likely randomized depending on variables.

[Easy Rhino]

it's streaky

I recently was playing a version of another game that happened to have a "streaky" random number generator out of some standard library.

A weapon had a dudrate of 50%. However, in usage, I found myself with 4 hits in a row, then 8 duds in a row, then two hits, and 4 duds...

Civ3's combat is kinda streaky. Big deal. If you wanted a certain unit to always win, then you might as not have random results at all.

ER

[GodSpawn]

Originally posted by Karhgath
sophist : First, your name fits nicely =)

Second, statistically, PRNG are 'correct'. However, in small ranges, it could be totally 'unrandom', if you excuse the bad wording. Statistically, the following list of 'random' numbers is correct, if max = 10 :

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

Try anyway you want, but this is statistically correct and goes along probablity correctly. .

WRONG! There are a huge number of statistcal tests for the "randomness" of a sequence of numbers, and this would fail them.

See, for example, "ITL Bulletin: A Statistical Test Suite for Random and Pseudorandom Number Generators for Cryptographic Applications" at www.itl.nist.gov/lab/bulletns/bltndec00.htm

You clearly know not of what you speak...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - random numbers and large sample sizes can yield strange, but statistically predictable results. To the mathematically illiterate, this is the stuff of urban legends (and badly drawn conclusions...)

[Hurry]

I very much doubt that the PRNG in Civ3 is streaky. And if anyone is going to disagree with me, PUT SOME PROOF on the table! I´ve heard enough of "I know", "facts" and "it is like this", without anything than a single example to proove it. If the PRNG would never produce streaks, it would be more than strange.

And Alex 14: try to read the posts about the Pseudo-Random Number Generator. It might give you an idea what we are talking about here.

Try for example this link: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=37155

EDIT: Added link.

[rid102]

I very much doubt that the PRNG in Civ3 is streaky. And if anyone is going to disagree with me, PUT SOME PROOF on the table!

Well I'm glad that your unsubstantiated assertion has proved us all wrong there while at the same time going someway towards contradicting itself!

I don't know about you but I'm quite happy with the Civ3 PRNG being as streaky as bacon and rigged like a ship with very many sails.

What can we offer you in exchange for the city of Veii?