All this talk of Civ3 and CTP2...

[Simpleton]

Originally posted by senowen
If you guys want to play CTP2, you had better go to the forums here and find all the good patches because the game absolutely sucks without having all the right patches in place. You guys should probably go over there and ask some questions and such.

You'll need more than the patches. The game sucks even after the patches. It still sucks after the mods.... In the end the game is awful. CTP was average but CTP2 was just plain bad.

[N. Machiavelli]

Originally posted by Simpleton



You'll need more than the patches. The game sucks even after the patches. It still sucks after the mods.... In the end the game is awful. CTP was average but CTP2 was just plain bad.

Thank you for that informative and example-rich post! Your unfounded opinions warm my soul, please please, write more!

[Changmai Beagle]

Wow - Another reference to Master of Magic battle screens. I've suggested that for every game that has come out since I found this forum.... sigh....

Yes, Sid did comment on why he didn't include that type of combat, but I respectfully disagree. And if I remember correctly, it was optional?? If not, it certainly could be made so (see Age of Wonders). Even Conquest of the New World (which was a horror show on my computer - it took 10 minutes to load and would only load successfully every third time or so) had an interesting tactical battle setup.

If Firaxis were to add something nice and tactical like that, I'd even plump for 'new edition' (maybe).

[kimmygibler]

"If CTP2 had the AI of Civ3 it would be a showstopper"

This is the truth. The list of features for ctp2 was endless. (corporate branch, slavers, pirating trade routes) But the ai was brutal and many features were implemented poorly. (if you think the ai ignores your borders in civ3...) Civ3 is a step backwards in terms of innovation but a huge step forward in ai. The real question is whether or not Civ3 is a step forward from SMAC...

[player1]

Why Civ3 doesn't have a scripting language?

Why it doesn't have modifiable AI?

Those modifications helped CTP2 to improve AI from POOR status to average status.

What could be done in Civ3 with such tools?

[Fidel]

Originally posted by kimmygibler
"If CTP2 had the AI of Civ3 it would be a showstopper"

This is the truth. The list of features for ctp2 was endless. (corporate branch, slavers, pirating trade routes) But the ai was brutal and many features were implemented poorly. (if you think the ai ignores your borders in civ3...) Civ3 is a step backwards in terms of innovation but a huge step forward in ai. The real question is whether or not Civ3 is a step forward from SMAC...

1) corporate branch = boring, repetitive, stupid unit
2) slavers = too powerful
3) pirating trade routes = ridiculously tedious and boring AI pirating it before being obliterated in response. i guess pirating was a feature that should remind you that out there there was AI empire lurking and that you should perhaps smash it with a single army.

[Tilemacho]

CTP2 combat system was exellent and the units were placed mostly correct....it's so annoying that civ3 didn't take any of CTP2 good ideas.
Unfortunately both games don't have MP......I mean just look at CTP1 multiplayer thread it still has 40.000 post quite a lot more than whole CTP2 section just because of MP......

[Proteus_MST]

Yep, I agree.
A Civ-Game with the Combat-System of MOM would be really cool. :d:
Even the Combat-Concept from CTP would be better than the current Gladiator-Battles of Civ3 (although with a better Placement of Units [no, it wasn´t nice, when the Compzuter sometimes placed your Artillery-Units right in Front of the Balltefield and used your Tank-Units as Artillery-Support]).

[Moraelin]

Yep, the Master of Magic fights were the real thing.

[Monoriu]

But one thing though, if you do tactical combat you gotta do it right.

Good examples: Master of Magic, Master of Orion.

Bad Examples: Imperialism I and II.

[FALVES]

Originally posted by Moraelin
Yep, the Master of Magic fights were the real thing.

Man, I burned a lot of eye-lash playing that game. That game ruled and more recently I had a good time playing Age of Wonders too. The combat systems are similar, but the rest of the game plays a lot like Heroes of Might n Magic, wich sucks.

It makes me wonder why hasn't anybody remebered to do a Master of Magic 2. With the current advances in graphics and AI the game would really kick @ss!!

Btw, anybody knows where I can find a copy of MoM?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by kimmygibler
CTP 2 has way more features and options, but the ai is insanely bad. The civ3 ai is a million times better. I would never play the unmodded CTP again. (Also, Activision's patch was useless)

Yes, the unmodded AI wasn't so hot but the mods improve things considerably. Also I almost always play CTP2 as a multiplayer game against other humans so how good or bad the AI was is of no concern.

If CTP2 is played MP against Humans then it is, IMHO, the best civ off shot so far. Of course I am an MP fanatic so I don't plan on buying Civ3 until MP support comes along.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Simpleton
You'll need more than the patches. The game sucks even after the patches. It still sucks after the mods.... In the end the game is awful. CTP was average but CTP2 was just plain bad.

Of course this opinion was given to us by a man who calls himself a simpleton....
:-)

[JamesJKirk]

While I've played and enjoyed CTP and CTP2, it really does get old just winning so easily, even not through conquest, but just expansion and gold and science. This was much more true in 2 than in 1, but the interface was much much nicer in the second one.

You need to take this into consideration about CTP2 AI doesn't even conduct diplomacy with each other, the best mod makers are just barely eaking out some bare forms of Ai diplomacy, and this is probably one of the most revolutionary steps in the modding of the game. But, it's incredibly modable, SCRIPTING LANGUAGE and all that.

Another thing about the CTP series was that I felt I was playing against anonymous enemies who may or may not have even had separate colors. The diplomacy screens were crap, and all civs essential acted the same, regardless of size or situation.

Still, they both do have a small place in my heart, and I also desire getting that best of both worlds of each series