German release/translation gaff

[ravagon]

FMK

Well said. Everything.

[Hoek]

This is ridiculous. It has become abundantly clear that Infogrames is not customer-service oriented. I understand that they are a business and that tech companies are facing some difficulties, but it won't endear the civ community to do this kind of B.S. I still have not bought Civ 3, though I was inching towards asking for it for Christmas. Now, however, I have decided categorically that I will not support a company that treats consumers so poorly. It's one thing to look out for your bottom line...it's another to punch your fans and customers in the face. As I understand it, these guys were willing to lend a hand to the localization efforts in the hopes that they could get the German release to come out sooner. Now, if I'm not mistaken, that would mean free labor AND a quicker release of the localized version. To argue that the financial impact of allowing the English version to be translated would be too great is ridiculous. It was Infogrames's stupid decision to force the English version early. What did they expect? Germans celebrate Christmas too! Considering the sucess of Civ 2 and Alpha Centauri, Infogrames is truly idiodic in doing this. Why is it that I don't get sent a $500 fine for making my "Spanish-American War Scenario" for Civ 2? When "Conflicts in Civilization" came out, they included a whole pack of scenarios designed by fans. Modifying and distributing text files for the sake of a scenario should not be treated any differently than modifying them for a translation. I am sad to say that I think that Infogrames has destroyed the Civilization legacy referred to on the Civ 3 website.

[kittenOFchaos]

They can't stop the work...

All the dude needs do is release his mod via a friend or internet cafe and then keep quiet.

They couldn't possibly prove that someone else didn't just follow the same procedure as he and his team did.



Funny how Dan from firaxis will wash his hands of this one or just plain avoid it...I think civ3 is great and will get better with modding, but this is almost in spite of firaxis and infogram.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by GP
They make more money by selling seperate language versions. It enables price discrimination. (For instance if DE civers can be charged more than Americans.)

Okay, I understand that they want to sell localized versions, or their translation wouldn't profit, but if someone translated the game to a language that it wouldn't be translated to in other case. Shouldn't that boost the sales of the English version?

[ravagon]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
Funny how Dan from firaxis will wash his hands of this one or just plain avoid it...I think civ3 is great and will get better with modding, but this is almost in spite of firaxis and infogram.

I don't think this had much to do with Firaxis. They get their money whether they sell American language versions now (which are translated by fans or not) or German language versions later...

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by MarkG
there are absolutely no problems with maps, scenarios or mods

[color={qcolor}]You may not modify...[/color]
Changing the graphics is what I call modifying.

And what does "create derivative work from" mean? My English isn't good enough to understand the meaning of that part. I can understand the words, but I can't tell what the words tell me not to do.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Gramphos

Okay, I understand that they want to sell localized versions, or their translation wouldn't profit, but if someone translated the game to a language that it wouldn't be translated to in other case. Shouldn't that boost the sales of the English version?

In that case...it would help them...

[TCO]

Suits don't play games...Yin

Originally posted by yin26
Nothing good can possibly come of this bullying the fans. IG is so friggen behind the curve when it comes to the modding community is it truly wretched to see this happen. God, I hope that the sales in Germany just drop through the floor because of this. In fact, I hope IG's stocks take a huge hit in 2002 as well.

Cocky know-nothing bastards. I would sleep better at night picturing out of work IG suits looking for jobs in the newspaper but not finding any ... and as they go to try to mod their favorite computer games in the meantime, the Hit Squad comes in a blows holes in their computer.

The suits are, like me, non-players who talk about game marketing. (But not as well as I do... )

[yin26]

GP: I know, that was my (too hidden, I guess) jab at them.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Gramphos
You may not modify...
Changing the graphics is what I call modifying.

hhm, well, when you bring me a complaint from firaxis about mods with graphics, we can talk about it again

[yin26]

Just don't change any graphics that make up words, though, 'cause then your butt will be in prison, mister!

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by MarkG
hhm, well, when you bring me a complaint from firaxis about mods with graphics, we can talk about it again

I know that Firaxis is positive towards moding and changing graphics, but it is Infogames that has written the license. I have seen posts by Dan confirming that the changes and enhancements are good. (And you may not enhance)

[korn469]

Gramphos

And what does "create derivative work from" mean? My English isn't good enough to understand the meaning of that part. I can understand the words, but I can't tell what the words tell me not to do.

derivative is a mathematical term from calculus

in this case corporate calculus! it means they will smack you with a lawsuit when you makes changes they don't approve of

but a deriviative work means what you made was based on the engine that you adapted for your own purposes...like if you managed to mod the civ3 engine into a hack and slash game but you said it was your game and not a civ3 mod, technically freeciv, and the civ evo projects are "derivative works"

as far as your copy tool and save game editor goes, i don't think it applies to them, i think it would have to be something that actually was centered around a large portion of the civ3 code

[Setsuna]

Infogrames and Firaxis hate Germans!!!!!1(sic)

Just look at this page!

http://www.civ3.com/civoftheweek.cfm?civ=Germans

Put the mouse over their Unit. It's the ONLY UU that DIES instead of firing!!!

That's not all - the Germans were taken off the list of previous civilizations!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're on to you companies!!!

[yin26]

Kind of sad, isn't it? How we are now working carefully to define what it is we can and can't change without worrying about a lawsuit?

Write this whole incident down in your notepads under the title: "Ways to shoot yourself: Corporate Blunders 101"