Announcement

**yin26** · November 27, 2001, 05:23

We at Infogrames are all very saddened to see you so openly aiding in an act you know to be illegal. Standing next to me is our Head Lawyer, who has now told me to advise you not to post here any further as it might incriminate you further.

Trust me, this whole process hurts me more than you might imagine. I love all our gamers, even the ones, like you, who intend to do us harm. I hope you will pay your $1,000 promptly and sign the Admission of Guilt papers without a fuss, as this might go in your favor when the judge determines final damages that you will have to pay. At this point, it looks like your share will be a percentage of $500,000, which could easily run you into several thousand dollars unless you start posting apologies and editing out the thieving in your earlier post.

Of course, the choice is yours. Choose wisely, Mr. Gamer.

Yours,

Infogrames

**kittenOFchaos** · November 27, 2001, 05:33

quote:

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
Funny how Dan from firaxis will wash his hands of this one or just plain avoid it...I think civ3 is great and will get better with modding, but this is almost in spite of firaxis and infogram.

Well, considering that:

A) The only substantive information I know about this is what's been posted here, and

B) To my knowledge it has nothing to do with Civ3.com, Firaxis.com or any of Firaxis' web presence,

There is nothing I can really say or do to ameliorate the situation. I don't know where the idea came from that I'm some omnipotent demigod who knows all and can make things right with a wave of my hand, but I'm here to tell you it just isn't true. If it was, I wouldn't be in the doghouse with my wife so much, that's for sure.

I comment and/or assist in threads where I have knowledge of a topic and the ability to help, and don't in threads where I don't/can't. I hope you can understand and respect that.

Dan

Well Dan...you are main contact that "I" for one have with firaxis etc (infogrames never respond to my nice e-mail...one of them auto-replied me

...they are all A.I governors at infogram) and that if I provoke you enough you may bash some heads together at work and get things sorted.

Firaxis and Infogrames are partners in the civ3 project so I'm pretty sure that Firaxis can make high-level representations if they are so inclined. Alot of us are annoyed at certain "let-downs" especially by infogrames...I hope if you ever embark on another project that you won't use infogrames as your publisher...

P.S you are too modest, you ARE god

**joker_civ3ger** · November 27, 2001, 05:39

2 yin26: ok, just tell me your address..

**kittenOFchaos** · November 27, 2001, 05:39

You know they are getting tough when they try to get you to payup via e-mail...the tv licensing people send a man with a big net...

**yin26** · November 27, 2001, 05:46

joker_civ3ger:

Sadly, this will cease to be a joke when the legal papers are served to you within a few days. Sorry, bud. You made your bed. Hope you can pay the fine otherwise it's jail time.

Infogrames.

**joker_civ3ger** · November 27, 2001, 05:57

2 yin26: stop ****ing over your crap posts here and get a life!

**yin26** · November 27, 2001, 06:14

Quick question: Would you actually like to see the food you are stealing from our mouths?

Here's my address. Come see it, tough guy:

417 Fifth Ave.
New York, NY 10016
Tel: +1 212-726-6500

**Fredric Drum** · November 27, 2001, 06:18

Originally posted by ravagon

True indeed but the ability to mail order English versions means that the distributors marketing base is smaller than they think. A 3 month+ wait for German fans is an awful lot... especially as a fair number speak passable English anyway.

As a matter of interest does anbody know as a rough figure the proportion of English-language computer games translated into German/other languages?
If this is fairly low while the number sold (in English) is still high it may make for some interesting debate to say the least.

Hi!

I don't know what percentage of games are translated, but I do know that some games are released in different languages at the same time. I've been involved in the translation of some games lately.. and they have not first been published in English and then the translated version. Sure, CIV3 has a lot of text in it... but they really should have started translations earlier. Sounds like Infogrames woke up on US release date thinking... "hey, shouldn't this game be translated? Forgot all about it!" *infogrames guy rushing to the phone to call a translation agency* "hey, can you translate 200 000 words by tomorrow? ... No? Day after then? ... No?"

Hehe... just couldn't resist.

In fact I was toying with the idea of translating the game into Norwegian just for fun.. as I don't suppose it will be translated officially?? Haven't heard anything about it anyway. Guess I would have to end up paying for the privilege anyway.... uh!

Word of advice to Infogrames (as if they'd read this): Please let the translators actually PLAY the game! That's how you filter out all those embarrassing mistakes... I know that not all games publishers do this.

Fred

**Martinus** · November 27, 2001, 06:29

I was so far very pro-Firaxis, but on this I have to agree with Yin. Even if Firaxis or Infogrames didn't want these guys to translate the game, this is a disgrace to resolve the matter like this!

I also participate in the Europa Universalis forum, and contrary to Firaxis, Paradox (the EU producer) takes every pain to make the co-operation with fans extensive.

Not only the whole Europa Universalis 2 creation forum was hosted by Paradox, with constant input for players etc., the game was beta-tested by fans and many descriptions in it were contributed by fans.

In the credits of EU2, Paradox thanked fans for the input. (It is not a big deal, but a nice touch)

Hell, 6 days after the game was released, the guys from Paradox supplied a patch which fixed the bugs that were not discovered during the beta-testing (and these were not feature-not-working bugs, but AI bugs).

**madmario** · November 27, 2001, 09:53

Originally posted by MarkG
there are absolutely no problems with maps, scenarios or mods

Why Markos? What's the legal difference between modding a (supposedly substandard) translation for the game before one is officially released, and modding a WWII scenario for the game before one is officially released (in an expansion)? Or, better, modding new dialoge (wow these guys are boring the 83rd time I play this game) before an expansion comes out that does the same thing (which is, frankly, what Kai and his crew were up to).

I may be too alarmed, but really, this act should make all moders think twice or three times less they want the very friendly letter to crunch their christmas. Or, will someone from Firaxis or Infogrames tell me to chill out please.

-mario

**MarkG** · November 27, 2001, 10:28

Originally posted by madmario
Why Markos? What's the legal difference between modding a (supposedly substandard) translation for the game before one is officially released, and modding a WWII scenario for the game before one is officially released (in an expansion)

i'm not fully aware of thelegal differences between a translation and a scenarios or a mod with new graphics. i know very well though that firaxis welcomes the creation of maps, scenarios and mods. i'm also pretty sure than an infogrames marketing director would care much more about a translation patch availiable 4 months before the official translation than about a map of germany...

**dr.charm** · November 27, 2001, 12:44

I thought that in order to protect a copyright or trademark, one had to be seen making an effort to actually protect it. So what this would mean is that by allowing some mods to be okay, and others to be grounds for legal action (because that's all the translation is - a mod), Infogrames has in fact shot itself in its legal foot.

Cheers,

Dr. Charm

**madmario** · November 27, 2001, 19:00

Originally posted by MarkG
i'm not fully aware of thelegal differences between a translation and a scenarios or a mod with new graphics. i know very well though that firaxis welcomes the creation of maps, scenarios and mods. i'm also pretty sure than an infogrames marketing director would care much more about a translation patch availiable 4 months before the official translation than about a map of germany...

My unspoken point was that I don't think there is a legal difference, and if there was I doubt a judge or a jury of non-geeks would understand it either, even in Germany.

And, even if Firaxis is supportive, here we have a multiheaded hydra striking out, biting first and asking questions later (did they even give the guy a phone call first?).

Also, your scenarios aren't parallel, Markos. Would they care about a (less professional) WWII scenario released a few months before an "official" WWII focused expansion pack? What about a mod that added five new civilizations 2 financial quarters before the release of an expansion pack that did the same (albeit 2 civilizations were different). What if this mod wasn't compatable with the expansion pack? There is no line. Whatever courteous line in the sand existed before has been blown away.

We have no public word from Firaxis reassuring anyone at this point. Even if they did, one hydra head may bite the one that bit kai, but kai (and the community) is still bit.

-mario

**MarkG** · November 27, 2001, 19:26

Originally posted by madmario
And, even if Firaxis is supportive, here we have a multiheaded hydra striking out, biting first and asking questions later (did they even give the guy a phone call first?).

Also, your scenarios aren't parallel, Markos. Would they care about a (less professional) WWII scenario released a few months before an "official" WWII focused expansion pack? What about a mod that added five new civilizations 2 financial quarters before the release of an expansion pack that did the same (albeit 2 civilizations were different). What if this mod wasn't compatable with the expansion pack? There is no line. Whatever courteous line in the sand existed before has been blown away.

We have no public word from Firaxis reassuring anyone at this point. Even if they did, one hydra head may bight kai and another head may bite that head, but kai is still bit.

it's obvious that i cant comment on what the people at infogrames are thinking, since, well, i dont know what they are thinking

but i can safelly tell you that all the availiable factions created by people for smac didnt harm at all the sales of smac-x, just like all the fan-created civ2 scenarios didnt harm the sales of the civ2 packs(in fact they kept the community alive and waiting for scenario packs, and some of them were part of the packs, making money for microprose). and firaxis knows all this very well.

now, firaxis coming out and assuring everyone that there are no problems with mods and scenarios while the legal issue goes on(btw, can any german-speaking people check the infogrames.de forums or civ3.de for news?) would be kind of worthless. hell, even infogrames say that they care about the community and want to support fan projects

**habitualuser** · November 27, 2001, 20:43

I'm geek with too much time on my hands, and translating the game to Klingon... is this copyright infringement?

Or because they're not making a Klingon version and not losing and money is it ok?

Also if you make a mod, do you have to distribute the whole civiopedia or can you just include the changes? If you have to include the whole thing, wouldn't that be copyright infringement as well?? so much for making mods....

And firaxis' response is real great, "well it has nothing to do with our web site so....."

Announcement

German release/translation gaff

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