Civ IV: The List v.2.0

[Jer8m8]

this may be a "duh" post, but check the creation forum. Many people come up with ideas, and some ideas in mods could be used on the list. Also, check the civ3 list-see what got left out

[Midway]

Originally posted by HolyWarrior
One thing I would like to see is that if a sea square is explored, it is considered a link, and your civ could move along them like a railroad. 20 years to circumnavigate the world is too unrealistic. Even Magellan only took 3!

Social engineering a la SMAC.

Political--Monarchy, Republic, Democratic
Economic--Capitalist, Communist, Fascist
Religious--Polytheism, Monotheism, Existentialism
Scientific--Philosophy, Scientific Method, another to be named

How about the idea of Wind? Where certain paths in the water provided quicker route cause of the winds are stronger in that area? or something along those lines.

Also "Economic--Capitalist, Communist, Fascist" How about something between Capitalist and Communist thats to extreme to just be next to each other. Controled Capitalism or soemthing...

[Jer8m8]

I have another idea about colonies: have them count as air bases. You own them, they're outside of your territory and they are semi cities...so why can't you land planes there?

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by Jer8m8
this may be a "duh" post, but check the creation forum. Many people come up with ideas, and some ideas in mods could be used on the list. Also, check the civ3 list-see what got left out

Hmmm... Checking the list would be too complicated and a lot of truble- but I believe I will check the creation forum- thank you

[Cozy_22303]

My two cents on what I'd like to see in CIV4...

- Immigration/ Emigration. I once sent a post on another pre-CIV3 forum somewhere where I wanted this issue debated. CIV3 already has parts of it: if you conquer an enemy city, e.g the Greeks its inhabitants will still be greek for some while, happy or not. Now what would happen if the greeks could actually send people into your cities as workers whenever you're not at war, for example if your city is close to the greek borders. What if any civilization could do that? The city status window could show a diagram of the city population demographics, saying "90% Romans, 5% Greek, 2% Babylonians" or so. Those cities with more than, say, 20% foreign inhabitants could likely fall into disorder when a war erputs, or anytime on higher difficulty levels... restrictive/repressive governments (Communism? Despotism?) might throw out "unwanted" foreigners, thus decreasing city sizes... of course, YOU (the player) could send your own people to foreign cities... they would leave anyway if they don't like the way you govern the country, adding up to your competitor's city sizes... spies could only plant propaganda in cities holding inhabitants of your civilization (they can barely hide with people which language they don't speak or so)...

-Cultural influence zones do not determine actual borders (this might fix the problem that enemy civs can, and do build their cities everywhere, even inside your homeland). In history, borders were defined in war, in Civ4 they might be defined around any unit, adding to the cultural border. A unit placed, say, 10 fields off the actual cultural border might, if fortified, generate its own border, growing slowly but finally merging with your country border. Trespassers will be prosecuted.

- Please, give the AI a target to follow. Everyone wants to win, but some civilization prefers to win by domination, others by diplomatic achievements. They should be intelligent enough to determine if their starting position makes this way of winning possible at all - starting in a huge swamp will not actually give you a huge bonus. I would have expected the Zulu, for example, to be a very aggresive people, giving you with one hand and threatening you with the other, regardless of their current strategic and financial situation.

(Copied this post from the thread I mistakenly opened last week. Ming, I got frustrated when I saw it closed first, but believe me, I now know much better. Sorry for opening it)

- Cozy

[Cozy_22303]

Pollution

Another thing I'd like to ask: Why is pollution (since CIV1) still simulated by making a tile outside of a city unusable? Let me explain what I am trying to say.

- Since the first documented signs of pollution in the early 12th century, the people who had to suffer most because of it lived within city borders. Their general health curve took a deep dive (and in many so-called civilized areas, it still does). To me, pollution in a Civilization game should mean population decrease, or at least decreasing its growth.

- It's true that certain resources have simply gone because of pollution, but this does not necessarily mean resources close to the cities that actually produced pollution. It could happen anywhere else on the planet, depending on wind and water currents etc. In the game, imagine the Aztecs (deliberately?) polluting America's beaches or plains - couldn't that lead to war?

- On the other hand, I still miss the fact that cities grow out of their original borders anyway (which is why I have problems imagining that the wheat fields outside a city could pollute). Where are the suburbs developing outside the city, something you (the player) cannot actively control? These areas could very well pollute...

- Cozy

[Jer8m8]

These are some selections from the civ3 list:

"1.4) BORDERS AS A NEGOTIABLE COMMODITY: “I think borders should be another bargaining tool. In the diplomat screen you should be able to move the boards around and offer the new arrangement to the other civilization. (i.e. you move the border) so you have more land (maybe including a city or two) in exchange for something� (Blue Waldo).

1.4a) Land, therefore, a commodity: “Allow buying, selling, and trading individual pieces of land. This would allow simulation of: The Louisiana Purchase, The Gadsden Purchase, The Polish Corridor, The Alaska Purchase, etc.� (HolyWarrior)."

"3.1c) Are borders possible before Map-Making?: “It would make it a lot easier to discuss borders in diplomatic relations...� (NotLikeTea)."


"1.1) GEOGRAPHICAL REGIONALISATION -- Every civilization is divided up into different regions, based on a capital surrounded by a radius 8 area of land (or square, etc). Cities that are properly linked to the capital within this radius (i.e. by road) can exchange resources, and the player can access any city from any other city with that region from the regional map, a popup feature within the city menu. Regions can be named, have their own internal borders, can be set to identical production queues, and make city management a simpler process. As well, some social engineering factors (values) and the tax rate can be altered for each region (done either through options in the capital of the region or the social settings screen)."

"2.1) TERRAFORMING -- Terraforming can be handled by citizens from inside the city menu as well as by settlers from the main map, or, when the appropriate technology is discovered, possibly from the regional menu. Each city gets a terraforming build queue, and a 'hurry' button to rush improvements for money (possibly even add an ability to use minerals for 'forming). A certain number of citizens are allocated jobs as Masons, Yeomen or Engineers (each of which builds faster than before), while the end of the technology tree should include the SMAC former unit (the only terraforming unit not composed of huge numbers of citizens). Terraforming outside a city is handled the normal way, using settlers, or by workers from the regional map, as mentioned above."

"2.6) UNIT PRODUCTION -- A suggestion that many units, particularly offensive fighters, should require their own structure to be produced before they can be constructed was generally well received. A system that allowed any city to build that era's basic infantry (i.e. civilian militia type mobilization), but required more complex units, especially offensive forces, to have facilities in place is what is currently proposed. In addition, upgrades to these facilities make more workshop items available. Feedback for this is positive."

"2.12) SPECIALISTS

· Serf - unhappy worker, suffers -1/3 production (see below)
· Worker - works in city radius square
· Farmer* - improves food output by 1 in square
· Trader* - improves arrows output by 1 in square
· Miner* - improves shields output by 1 in square.
· Mason - beginning terraforming unit (later Yeoman, engineer, terraformer).
· Settler - special unit, can work or terraform, but cannot be a specialist. Can move from town to town. Must be constructed first, as per Civilization II rules. Never becomes unhappy.
· Scientist - + science
· Tax collector - + tax (limit 1 per 5 citizens)
· Entertainer**- produces luxuries (make normal citizen happy).
· Priest** - makes unhappy citizen happy (limit 1 per 5 citizens)
· Governor -available only in regional centers, or cities outside of a region. Improves efficiency for region or city (by +3, assuming a 0-10 scale for each social engineering value). Only one allowed, and only at capital/regional centers and cities outside of a regional radius (represents the regional bureaucracy - a significant investment in human resources in any culture to date).

2.12a) * Farmers and traders appear automatically when in the right square, and require certain technologies to be discovered first. They can also be manually selected. However, they limit mineral output to a maximum of 2. A Miner gets +1 minerals, but destroys ALL food output in their square (they should also appear much later in the game).

2.12b) ** Entertainers and priests both improve city happiness, but in different ways. Entertainers affect both normal and unhappy citizens, in the normal Civilization II way. Priests affect ONLY unhappy citizens, making them normal. Thus, priests are usually first required, but are limited, both by the number allowed and in that they do not generate happy citizens.

2.12c) Happy citizens make better specialists, adding +1 to tax, science, or efficiency. This does not improve priests and Entertainers, however.

2.12d) Unhappy citizens are less productive, slowing terraforming and work output by 1/3. They cannot become specialists (including farmers, etc), and may revolt if present in great enough numbers. They represent the discontent part of the population, the landless peasants etc."

Some of these are in and have been made in mods
"1. NEW IMPROVEMENTS

1.1) Theater
1.2) City Clock
1.3) Hospital
1.4) Cinema
1.5) Pharmacy
1.6) Television
1.7) Security Monitor
1.8) Fusion Plant [EnochF]
1.9) Medieval Fairs
1.10) Forge
1.11) Textile mill/loom
1.12) Suburbs
1.13) Highways,
1.14) Public schools
1.15) Parks
1.16) Opera House
1.17) Museum
1.18) Circus [wheathin]

1.19) Base Support Structures: This Improvement includes ALL PAST CRITICAL structures under a single name and structure, including all the benefits. The old buildings will be replaced, and the upkeep costs will be low. Auto upgrade or build upgrades when you move to a new age [Trachmyr].

1.20) Pasteurization Plant: Adds 25% to total food due to the reduction in losses to spoilage. [Sieve Too]

1.21) Pesticide Plant: Adds another 25% to total food but increases pollution. [Sieve Too]

1.22) Doctor’s House: Added to the already suggested “Pharmacy� and “Hospital�—a series of three related improvements. [Ralph]

1.23) City Park: Makes one additional citizen content. Requires: Sanitation (Maybe a new advance, something like Modern Fertilizer). Cost: 60 shields Maintenance: 1 gold.

1.24) Theme Park: Two citizens happy. One additional gold for every 4 population. Plus 5 gold for every wonder in city (tourism). Requires: Mass Media advance (if Mass Media advance not in game then Electronics). Cost: 240 shields, Maintenance: 4 gold.

1.25) Transmitter: Makes two citizens content (by distraction). With the advent of Mass Media (Electronics if Mass Media not in game), provides one additional gold for every two citizens (advertising). Requires: Radio, Cost: 120 shields, Maintenance: 2 gold.

1.26) ISP: Plus 20% science in city. Plus 2 science for every other city with an ISP, including cities in other civilizations. Requires: Computer, Cost: 160 shields, Maintenance: 3 gold [ALL above by HarryKattz].

1.27) Bomb Shelter: Protects citizens from artillery attacks, missile attacks, and bombing runs from aircraft. Prevents the city from going down in population from these attacks.] [Travathian]

1.28) Stationary Units (Possibly custom-designed) [Isle]

1.29) Security Stations: Automatic genetic and/or fingerprint identification when accessing city areas/buildings everywhere: Automatically "detects" spies within city limits and may have a chance of making them fail. Spies may later gain an ability to have a chance to be hidden from security stations and decrease their fail chances. [Freddz]

1.30) Military Academy: Would control the upgrading of units. Units must be moved to a city with an Academy and stay there for 1 turn, and they would be automatically upgraded to the most modern military unit of their strategic type. Leonardo's would still exist as a wonder, but would act as a Military Academy in every city. [AgedOne]"

I have no idea how much text you can have, so this is it for now

[Mongoloid Cow]

Some more thinking

MANUFACTURING
Maybe you can turn raw materials into new resources, that can be traded.

eg: You start near Barley. If you build a brewer, it can be turned into Beer, a luxury resource with +1 food. You could use it to supply your empire, or you could trade it off to another civ.

[Xenophon]

Like many people, I was disappointed that there weren't more additions to what you can research and build in Civ3, though I do think the small wonders are a great idea (or should that be 'great wonders are a small idea' - maybe not ).

Here are my ideas for a few more:

City Improvements

City Hall: reduces corruption, but has relatively high maintenance and reduces happiness (as opposed to increasing unhappiness).

Zoo: increases happiness, commerce and science.

Cinema: possibly a replacement to coloseum.

Small Wonders

Senate/Upper House of Parliament: Enhances all effects of City Halls , vetos some actions a la Civ2.

National Library and/or Museum: increases culture, happiness and science.

National Gallery and/or Concert Hall: increases culture and happiness.

Fleet Street (National Press): increases culture, happiness, commerce and war weariness; prerequisite - Printing Press (well it's not used for anything at the moment ).

National Radio Station (think BBC): as above but made possible by - guess what - Radio!

National TV Station (also think BBC): as above.

Written Constitution: increases happiness and reduces corruption.

National Health Service: increases happiness, reduces disease, but has high maintenance.

Secret Police: reduces enemy espionage and corruption, but increases unhappiness.

FBI/NCIS: reduces corruption.

As you migh have noticed, I do like the small wonders - and I particularly like the idea of double-edged improvements, the only similar things I can think of are a couple of improvements in SMAC.

Pollution

I think a lot more should be made of pollution in the game. For instance, the same things that cause war weariness should cause unhappiness about high levels of pollution. Whenever there's a spill in a city's boundaries it could go into civil disorder. You should be able to make agreements with other nations to reduce pollution and if a country doesn't live up to its obligation all the other signatories impose embargoes. Also once you get to a certain stage (approximately the era of mass media) whenever you cut down a forest/jungle, the a couple of peeps in the nearest city are made unhappy.

Resources

I think more realistic use could be made of the seas. Once you explore the oceans you should find fish, whales, oil and maybe gas as a new resource, you could then build a fishing fleet and oil/gas rigs and send them to harvest these resources. You might even have something like Age of Empires where each resource has a value on how much is left - only organic resources, ie animals and plant could regenerate, but mineral resources could have much greater starting values.

Re: Icewine ideas about the populated globe - don't forget that before the era of colonisation cities (and I'm no history expert) merely grew out of smaller established villages. In game terms you could possibly do away with settlers altogether.

There you go DarkCloud, another twopenn'orth (just under three cents, if you prefer).

[Drathx]

I posted a few ideas in the creation forum I'd like to throw into this discussion.
Explorers are currently almost useless. I think they could be used to claim land and expand your borders. Alternatively, they could simply 'claim land in the name of blah'. Claimed land might not affect the fog of war but the idea is that this land can become something you can use in negotiations, to plan future expansion of your empire, or simply keep others off this land.

There aught to be some things you can build outside your cities besides fortresses. A launch pad where the space shuttle is assembled. (currently its assembled in your capital.) Missile silos to keep ICBMs. This kind of thing probably wouldnt be revealed when you trade your world map, so you would have to have intelligence assets to find enemy silos, or simple investigation.

Getting a great leader could unlock a new small wonder like a statue that only adds culture. When a major war ends I think it could also unlock a similar monument, or memorial. Even a fortress that withstands a great conflict might become a culture booster (Remember the Alamo?)
The reason I see the need for these improvements to the game is that currently theres just a couple of buildings and the wonders that affect the culture of an entire civilization... so it is merely the result of good production and some research.

[Sze]

Hope I'm not repeating any one else's idea.

Move Sanitation to the middle ages (prereq. Engineering) and enable City Sewer improvement that allows cities to grow over size 12. Currently the hospital comes long after I have my core cities bump their heads on the 12 pop cap.

Make the Hospital city improvement buildable with with Medicene advance. It can heal friendly units (1 HP / turn) within the city's cultural boundaries, prevents population reduction during times of anarchy, and decreases casualties due to bombardment and/or nuclear attack.

[Nadexander]

I think it would be even better if people somehow, as tech advances, gravitated to the cities with the most production/commerce and food was distibuted to all cities connected to the trade network. New specialist, the laborer, would provide extra production. Other specialists should be more potent.

[Dravin]

You know if you continue with the shared food idea you can have actual seiges if you surround a city or use a naval blockade to bombard the roads/rails leading into town. (And of course themselves blocking any sea route.)

'Twould be interesting to watch your blockaded city slowly slip into civil disorder cause by unhappiness do to starvation. Now if only you’d work it that said city has a chance to surrender under such conditions, the chance of course increasing as starvation and unhappiness run rampant.

[Xenophon]

That reminds me of another idea - cities could gain the ability to surrender when presented with insurmountable odds. Ie, you surround a city with a few dozen tanks (or whatever) the citizens think 'bugger me' and fly the white flag. I think this would tie in with the fact that the AI has such high regard for your military strength.

I think it might be known as Finlandisation (or Finlandization if you're American). During the Cold War, Finland became an ally of the USSR because of its proximity to that superpower.

[Wrong_shui]

Originally posted by Xenophon

I think it might be known as Finlandisation (or Finlandization if you're American). During the Cold War, Finland became an ally of the USSR because of its proximity to that superpower.

How about cheese-eating-surrender-monkyism

or frenchism for short.