Civ IV: The List v.2.0

[Wombat]

If we're talking about Civ 4, and not just an expansion pack. I'd like to see a far more fundamental reworking of the whole game system.

For instance:

I would like to play on a world which is actually shaped like a sphere. This would mean abandoning the square grid, as a square grid can't fit on a sphere. This would affect how cities fit on the grid and would affect the game at every level.

I think if we're talking about Civ 4 we should really hope for major changes, not just further tweaks to the system.

[Mongoloid Cow]

Hmm...

GOVERNMENTS:
- like the idea of castes, but also have an environmental caste (cheaper environmental structures (Solar Plant, Mass Transit, Recycling Centre) and slightly better resource management (environmentalists recycle everything after all))

RESOURCES:
- Copper (needed for some ancient and modern units)
- Tin (with copper -- makes copper units as strong as iron units, but cheaper)
- Sheep (Food/Luxury)
- Silver (Luxury)
- Stone (Strategic - for wonders/improvements : eg. Pyramids, Hanging Gardens)
- Nickel & Zinc/Lead (suggested in the FILES FORUM in "MOD: Copper, Zinc and Nickel Resources" by Cossack)
- Cedar (Strategic)
- Beer (Luxury)

IN SCHISM:
- Maybe if you lose your capital, instead of a recently conquered civ (if you conquered them or not) taking half your empire, your empire splits up into
a) Cities loyal to you (the largest and most powerful part)
b) Smaller, unhappy minorities (the civs that have been conquered)
c) The largest minority (religiously/economically) with a different name (eg: Persians - Parthians, French - Burgundians, Babylonians - Assyrians, Greeks - Macedonians)
It would make keeping your empire happy more important

RELEASED:
- When it is released, make sure it's finished!!!

[narmox]

oh yeah, something else.. "Dynamic Civilizations"

currently, all Civs are static. 4000 BC, you've got a bunch of nations, and provided none of them get conquered, you'll have the same 6000 years later. Totally unlike history.

Just look at the Roman empire... It was dominating the Mediterranean, then fell from its glory. Barbarians came, pillaged, tried to keep its culture, became France, Italy, etc... Wouldn't it be cool if Barbarians could come and pillage, capture cities (I want barbarians to capture cities again!!!) and, if they can hold on long enough, that minor tribe could become a major tribe! Heck I was so amazed in CTP when a small barb empire of 3 cities started building a wonder - I'm serious! (Heck I loved playing _as_ the barbs once or twice in civ2 yes it was possible, but boring after a while cause you had to wait till you got some units, never where you wanted them, etc...)

Hey that could add a whole new aspect to civ games. Start out as a minor tribe, try to survive against major tribes until you can go out and try to build yourself an empire that eventually could become a major tribe. Milestons could be building your first cultural improvements, holding out for a set number of turns, or anything like that that would elevate the minor tribe to the status of major tribe.

Also, cities that defect in CTP form their own civ. Kinda links in with the idea above. All about the schisms in empires fits here too.

Other stuff: have the option of destroying or not cultural improvements in a captured city. Destroying their temples, etc, would make them more angry but easier to assimilate in the long run (so higher short-term chances of defecting, lower after assimilation), while not destroying them would even out the chances over time (people less angry, so not as eager to just leave your nation, but they'll be harder to assimilate cause they got all their culture still with them).

I love the whole MAD concept of ICBMs above, with immediate retaliation and all.

How about revolutions might cause some of your cities to defect and form their own empires, unless there are strong cultural ties? (I'm thinking of the split-up of the USSR here). Makes revolutions a little more worrisome ("hm, should I revolt now when my fringe cities are verging on civil disorders, or wait a while but getting a worse economy cause my govt type can't handle my empire size/upkeep costs/etc?")

enough for now...

[Libertarian]

I suppose I would like to have more satisfying victory notifications. Something more than just a popup message box declaring, "You've won a culture victory". I dunno. Maybe a move or something.

Also, I wish you didn't have to launch the spaceship when it's built. I wish you could launch when you decide to. (I think CivI was like that. Or II?)

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Zylka
Please forward these to the civ3 patch effort. The game mechanics may have been finished, but a lot of these logical ideas can and would fit in nicely.

Sorry, but were actually planning the next Civ series game, Sid Meier's Civilization IV. This is not Civ III patch thread.

[Fidel]

why are you posting civ4 stuff in civ3 forum?

[Rasbelin]

Rasbey's religion system for Civ IV

Okay, here it is, the new religion system planned by me for Civ IV.

As we all know, religions have been a significant part of the human life and society. They have given us answers to questions when science haven't been able to give us any proof why something happened. Religions and ideologies have given us guidelines on how to live. They have worked as a social network and as caretakers of the poor ones. This gives us good reasons to include the thelogical aspect into Civ IV, because it's too late for Civ III. I'm not talking of making a purely pro religion game, but a game that also includes one of the corner stones for the social system of civilisations.

General information

Every civ would have a state religion that would be practiced in all cities of that civ. The ruler of the civ could implement different religions that he would have the prequisites for. Each religion/ideology would have different effects and features. The ruler could also decide that there wouldn't be any state religion at all. The religions would also affect certain city improvements. The ruler wouldn't be able to adopt any religions/ideologies before inventing Ceremonial Burial. Before that there wouldn't be any common worship of higher powers. There wouldn't be any common religious city improvemnets like the Temple and Cathedral. Instead all religions would have their own ones. The Wonders of the World would still be the same as usual. Every religion/ideology would also have a specified attitude towards other religions/ideologies. That would give some benefits in decrease or increase of war weariness when having war against a civ with a certain religion. Example: If the Aztecs have Islam as their state religion, the war weariness would be slightly increased when fighting against the Islamistic Germans.

What new would be added?

- A new advisor, the Cleric Advisor. He would work as the spiritual matters and theology advisor of the player. Implementing state religions would be done in his screen, where you could also monitor the status of your empire's spiritual life.

- Different religions and ideologies reflecting the different eras. Each of them would have their own prequisites, features and city improvements.

- New RCIs (RCI=religious city improvement).

Example religion

Indigenious religion

Prequisites: Ceremonial Burial.
RCI: --
Effects: Additional luxuries in the capital city. Boosts any Despotic goverment by paying 1 unit's support in the capital. Decreases the overall science production per turn.
Attitude to other religions: Cautious.

Comments: Indigenious religions doesn't usually have any temples, so therefore they don't have any RCI. The effects in the capital reflects that the leader is often seen as a person comparable to the gods. Indigenious religions doesn't support science, so that's reflected in the drop of science production.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by LaRusso
why are you posting civ4 stuff in civ3 forum?

Protesting that there's no Civ IV forum?

[Rasbelin]

I'm going to compile a civ list for Civ IV, but I'd like to have opinions on this. Should we have 32 different civs and a 16 civ limit on the maximum amount of civs in one game (as in Civ III)?

[Purple]

(Items 1 and 7 edited for clarity.)

Personally I'd prefer to see some of the suggestions in this thread be included in a Civ3 patch, especially some of the interface and ease-of-use ideas. Add to them the following:

1) The Info Box (lower right corner) should show movement points remaining for the active unit including fractions .

2) Right-click on a tile should display (or at least list) not only the basic terrain type and resource, but also any enhancements (road, mine, etc.) and all units on it. Sometimes a resource makes it hard to discern whether a mine has been placed there, for example.

3) When a loaded transport ends a turn next to land or in port the units on board should ask permission to unload (as in SMAC).

4) I know it can be done in the editor, but it would be nice to be able to assign colors to civs at startup. Some colors (Russian brown, for example) are hard to see on the mini-map, Others are OK for AI civs (like the French magenta), but I'd prefer not to use them when I play that particular civ.

5) Revert to flags to identify nationality of units, and reserve color on the units themselves to make them visually more distinctive. On a high-res monitor they are so small that I can't always distinguish one type from another.

6) Optional keyboard control, via arrow, tab, or letter keys of all aspects of the game, especially in screens that require choices (some already have this, but not all).

7) Keyboard command editor (a la CTP).

Finally, a comment on the many requests for R to railroad a tile that has a road. I was annoyed at first by the change to shift-R, but now I prefer the new command. Why? Well, in SMAC I often inadvertently created a mag tube on a roaded tile that I thought didn't have a road. With the new command this would not happen. So, leave it as is (or make it an option). I haven't tested it, but it would be dandy if shift-R would also build a railroad on a clear tile, taking the appropriate number of turns, of course.

Cheers,
Purple

[Jer8m8]

About the civil wars/revolutionary wars: How about the ability for colonies to become cities? If you do not treat them well (forced labor, civil disorder) they might join with other colony/cities and become a new civilization

[Purple]

Replace the histogram with a simple line graph, which displays compared values more effectively, IMO. At the very least, how about a toggle?

Edit: grammar.

[Kolyana]

1) A window, always displayed, showing the characteristics and movement points remaining for the active unit.

Er. Isn't this in there already?

narmox - I LOVE LOVE LOVE your idea about the dynamic governments. I would DIE to see this in a game. Since Civ 1 I have imagined *MORE* governments in the game, a lot more smaller nations, some of which may grow into great nations, others which go by the wayside and are lost in history.

I mean, look at the modern world ... several GREAT nations, but also lots of little itty bitty ones that have not been around for thousands of years.

Barbarians settling and becomign empires (or at least some of them that may have an interest in this), or simply a dozen races that never quite make it ... and the birth of new races as the game develops.

YES YES YES YES YES.

Okay. Now someone make it happen.

[FrostyBoy]

I said NO

[Wernazuma III]

The synthetic rubber idea is good! But there are probably more resources which can be replaced by synthetics later in the game. I think of dye and saltpeter for instance. Maybe a city improvement could make them available.

Generally on resources: I think that having access to one oil should make it possible to have n units which require oil, having access to 2 oil you can have 2n units etc. (Same for all strategic resources). This would of course require more resources on the map. Thus most civs would be able to build some tanks i.e., but only those with much oil could build up a large army.