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**Deathwalker** · November 13, 2001, 04:17

Some good ideas

**Baloo** · November 13, 2001, 05:02

Great list, LaRusso.

I particularly like #4, can't stress more on the importance of it and it is one area which Civ III has taken a step backward from Civ II. Maybe two steps backward.

Feedback for player is extremely important. You can abstract everything from city management to trades. But not information. On information, we have to take it as much and as detailed as possible. From this we base our decision.

**Fidel** · November 13, 2001, 05:07

thanx. i think we should ignore whining going on here and concentrate at making some useful suggestions for patch no 2 (since i am sure that patch no 1 will be bugs only and those things that firaxians already noticed after going gold).

just one add:

-culture takeover: as suggested earlier by grumbold, there should be SOME consolation in losing the city to foreign culture - short battle (resulting in some loss of population and loss of city) or an option for peaceful withdrawal of the troops still loyal to our glorious kingdom in the case you have more units (say some MAY desert but some may remain loyal). i love culture but i feel bad about razing size 10 cities with world wonders EVERY time. i would not raze them if i had the chance to withdraw those 5 cavalry troops.

**Earthling7** · November 13, 2001, 05:09

Good points. Information is everything.

**Ancientfool** · November 13, 2001, 05:19

I would like to see cultural city captured handled differently as well. In fact I would like to see it stop altogether in the industrial and modern eras.. Modern mexican cities dont become american, people just migrate. A small population loss (gained by higher culture civ) would be more realistic in the later game.

Editor flagging of specific units as destroyable via bombardment For those who want to blow up ships or other units with airplanes.

More advanced UN options similar to planetary council in SMAC. Sanctions, war, pollution controls, etc.

Slower late game tech tree, yes. Should be harder.

Editor option to include civ II style 50% combat bonus to units from a more advanced era.

**Fidel** · November 13, 2001, 05:23

Originally posted by Ancientfool
I would like to see cultural city captured handled differently as well. In fact I would like to see it stop altogether in the industrial and modern eras.. Modern mexican cities dont become american, people just migrate. A small population loss (gained by higher culture civ) would be more realistic in the later game.

Editor flagging of specific units as destroyable via bombardment For those who want to blow up ships or other units with airplanes.

More advanced UN options similar to planetary council in SMAC. Sanctions, war, pollution controls, etc.

Slower late game tech tree, yes. Should be harder.

Editor option to include civ II style 50% combat bonus to units from a more advanced era.

1) that would allow a rollover later. cultural resistance importance grows exponentionally with the destructive power of units...
2) editor choices...i must admit i am not interested that much
3) would be cool
4) civ2 combat....i really dunno why...

combat works fine now. that kind of tweak would again present a civ2 mopup strategy....

**Robert** · November 13, 2001, 05:45

I agree with all but the one about space ships.
And that's just because I haven't build any space ship yet thus I can't know

**MisterMuppet** · November 13, 2001, 06:11

Excellent point !

Originally posted by Ancientfool
I would like to see cultural city captured handled differently as well. In fact I would like to see it stop altogether in the industrial and modern eras.. Modern mexican cities dont become american, people just migrate. A small population loss (gained by higher culture civ) would be more realistic in the later game.

A most excellent idea. I was thinking that as the game hit the modern age the chance of a Cultural defection should be reduced. The whole idea of a city changing allegiance because they admire another Civilisations old church is a bit far fetched. I propose that instead of admiring culture in the late game other Civs would admire your advanced technology.
Just imagine 1900 London crawling with old temples, churches and cathedrals and not a working toilet in sight. I would admire French sanitation and be off like a Plague rat down a victorian drainpipe.
Paris here I come, Nice plumbing.

**Fidel** · November 13, 2001, 06:13

Re: Excellent point !

Originally posted by MisterMuppet
I propose that instead of admiring culture in the late game other Civs would admire your advanced technology.

well, the highest tech civ is probably the biggest civ by then. would not it have a snowball effect?

**MisterMuppet** · November 13, 2001, 06:32

Re: Re: Excellent point !

Originally posted by LaRusso
well, the highest tech civ is probably the biggest civ by then. would not it have a snowball effect?

Would it not also be the highest culture civ, lots of cities all with temples, etc.
It would probably be a nightmare to balance anyway. Good job I am not a games developer, back to the day job. Well when I say job I mean surfing the internet at work.

**Fidel** · November 13, 2001, 09:57

Re: Re: Re: Excellent point !

Originally posted by MisterMuppet

Would it not also be the highest culture civ, lots of cities all with temples, etc.
It would probably be a nightmare to balance anyway. Good job I am not a games developer, back to the day job. Well when I say job I mean surfing the internet at work.

not necessarily. might be the one who decided to build every temple possible and has some cool ancient wonders

**redcloud** · November 13, 2001, 11:14

Culture and cities

Cities reverting back due to culture is a perfectly legitimate and highly realistic thing to happen. Want some examples?

Look at most of Britain's once glorious empire. America split off, India (Britain's most prized possession) reverted to Indian rulership and culture after WW II; similarly Egypt, and, more recently, South Africa. There are many other examples. Almost all the old European colonies captured during the 17th through to the 20th century have reverted back to their original owners, most of them peacefully.

I agree, however, that you should have the option to be able to withdraw all your troops peacefully from a city that is choosing to revert back to it's own culture. Of course, if that option fails, a violent uprising should result in a relatively smally population loss (maybe 1 point for every three units garrisoned) should occur.

The situation where this would _not_ occur, is when the cities are formed by that culture, hence myself down in Australia.

**Venger** · November 13, 2001, 11:24

Preach on brother LaRusso...

Originally posted by LaRusso
2. modern era tech rates -
i feel that some tech are just too cheap (advanced flight) and make some units obsolete too quickly. actually ALL modern techs should be at least 30-50% more expensive so as to provide for a bigger tech challenge. this way, they are researched in 5 turns, intensively traded and tech tree is over too quickly...(i am playing regent level). this will allow some serous plant and production buildup and give way for more devastating wars in the endgame

ARRRGGHH!!!! The tech avalanche is STILL there? Did anyone making Civ3 actually play Civ2? The late Civ2 games always had a tech avalanche as you discovered a tech every freaking 3 turns (or less!). That's so dull...this MUST be fixed to make the late game playable...

Alas, I'm still in 1650 in my FIRST game...so have yet to see how bad it is...

4. general comment - we should be able to see our diplo reputation, and that of the others. as it is now, we just know (based on our foreign advisor's comments) that homo homini lupus est. also, some indication as to the level of war weariness (say level 1 - 5) would be nice

ARRRRGGHH!!!! So there isn't a way to tell your war wearniess level (I had been asking). Did anyone making Civ3 actually play Civ2? Because the lack of your diplomatic status is egregiously left out, as you mention. At least you could see in Civ2 the effect of "war weariness" with the unhappy people caused by your military units being out of the city.

This goes to a bigger ***** of mine, the availability of information to the player. In this type of game, war weariness and diplomatic status are two of the whole slew of pieces of information that is crucial in this type of encompassing game. In terms of this, it's a real step back from Civ2.

Venger

**Fidel** · November 13, 2001, 11:28

Re: Preach on brother LaRusso...

Originally posted by Venger

ARRRGGHH!!!! The tech avalanche is STILL there? Did anyone making Civ3 actually play Civ2? The late Civ2 games always had a tech avalanche as you discovered a tech every freaking 3 turns (or less!). That's so dull...this MUST be fixed to make the late game playable...

Alas, I'm still in 1650 in my FIRST game...so have yet to see how bad it is...

ARRRRGGHH!!!! So there isn't a way to tell your war wearniess level (I had been asking). Did anyone making Civ3 actually play Civ2? Because the lack of your diplomatic status is egregiously left out, as you mention. At least you could see in Civ2 the effect of "war weariness" with the unhappy people caused by your military units being out of the city.

This goes to a bigger ***** of mine, the availability of information to the player. In this type of game, war weariness and diplomatic status are two of the whole slew of pieces of information that is crucial in this type of encompassing game. In terms of this, it's a real step back from Civ2.

Venger

tech avalanche is not as bad as it was in civ2 so you actually do wait a bit to get something...but it could be slowed down even more

well, as for war weariness, you see the results but you are not really certain if it can be any worse

Announcement

firaxians, could you please look into some modern era tweaks

firaxians, could you please look into some modern era tweaks

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