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What's the #@$#@ point of borders??? (rant)

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  • What's the #@$#@ point of borders??? (rant)

    This is a rant. Agree or disagree, but don't whine because you "had" to read a rant.

    What's the point of borders if the damn AI doesn't have to abide by them? I was playing an early game with the Russians and was on the same continent as the French, Greeks and English. I had built a lot of early cities and had a fairly contiguous border. I asked REPEATEDLY for my opposition to get out of my territory and they would for a turn, then they'd be right back in my face.

    Then they started building cities. First, it was on the outskirts of my borders or in waste areas (deserts). Then they just started plunking down cities that actively interfered with my culture borders. I was getting a bit miffed, but it was still tolerable. Then, they just started building cities INSIDE MY ACTIVE ESTABLISHED CITY LIMITS. That's right. Not only inside my culture borders, but inside my @$#%# city borders - the 2 hex "X" border.

    After that, my Civ 3 CD became a $50 frisbee.

    Frankly, it's not friggin worth the frustration of trying to build a large, peaceful Civ and having the computer just start plopping down cities in the middle of my empire. It's one thing to do it outside my city borders, where their city won't interfere with mine. Or outside my culture borders, where my city may have not grown outside the 1 hex range yet. It's quite another to have the computer start plunking down cities RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF MY EMPIRE, perhaps because there's one hex that's not covered by any city, but by establishing that city their production radius interferes with a number of my cities. THAT SHOULD BE AN ACT OF WAR!!!

    Firaxis forgot the attraction of Civ I and II - it's more fun to create and build than it is to destroy. You really can't play Civ 3 without being a warmonger. Which is a damn shame, because that's what made Civ I and II so great. You could actually play and win without actively pursuing war, at least on the lower difficulty levels.

    Did anyone play test this for longer than 5 minutes to actually figure out this just might be frustrating rather than fun? Geez, SMAC actually had much better border implementation and game concepts. Regardless of future patches, this game is pretty friggin mediocre in its released state.

  • #2
    Look at the bright side, thier retards for doing it, but in 20 turns its going to be yours anyway due to your overwelming culture beating on the 1 point city. Its dumb, its a bug, and hopefully they will fix it. The biggest problem with this isnt the fact they they plant it in middle of your empire. Its the fact that your going to have a useless city in 20 turns.
    We will fight them Until Hell Freezes over. Then we will fight them on the Ice.

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    • #3
      This is just smart play from the computer. I do the exact same thing to them, I think its just downright ignorant for you to expect the computer to not be intelligent, especially after we all pleaded for the AI to be smarter.

      Why build in wasteland? Simple, saltpeter and oil show up in the desert. Youd be an idiot to not plunk down a city in the desert if for no other reason then to claim the area in case one of those resources appear.

      Why build next to your culture boundries? Why build it so it interfers with your city radius and pushes your boundries back?

      DUH

      dumbass

      its tactical. He controls your expansion by heeming you in, pushes your boundries back, and if he can get a superior culture, increases his chance of converting your cities.

      I do it all the time, and quite succesfully.

      Instead of *****ing, try learning from the CPU


      BTW if they built INSIDE the culture boundries, thats a declaration of war

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      • #4
        I totally agree nothing irritates me more then a civ plopping down cities on my space. There should be an option to totally deny right of passage. This would cover everything in your border +5 around your cuclture border. I like having a civ per continent, the british plunked down like three cities and I had to build some just to assimilate those into my civ. There should be a continent ban option that keeps an enemy civ off of your continent.
        "Take nothing but victory, Leave nothing but corpses"

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        • #5
          Actually GNG your lack of understanding culture, seems to forget the fact that his culture is going to overrun that city smack in the middle of his empire in 20 turns. Doesnt sound too smart of an AI to me in that respect.

          But I am still having fun with the game, even though thiers little things that need to be fixed.
          We will fight them Until Hell Freezes over. Then we will fight them on the Ice.

          Comment


          • #6
            GNGSpam, try reading the post a little closer...to use your favorite term...dumbass. The second full paragraph - the one that starts with "then they started building".

            BTW if they built INSIDE the culture boundries, thats a declaration of war

            Not only did they build inside of the culture boundries without it being an "act of war", they build cities that encroached upon my 2 hex "x" CITY boundary.

            Like this:

            City - X - X - O - X - X - City

            (where X is part of the city boundary that gets improved and O is an unused hex, but all is enclosed as my "culture" border"

            The computer came in and did this

            City - X - Y - ENEMY CITY - Y - X - City (where Y is now his city border because they MUST have at least a 1 hex border like any brand new city). Sorry if it's a bit confusing, but that's the best way I can explain it.

            So not only did the AI plunk down a city smack in the middle of my civ, but they did so in a way to screw up the production of my cities - in this case, one was my capital city. That should be an act of war, but the AI can do this with impunity.

            And I really don't care about the fact that I'll get the cities eventually with "culture" as I don't want these crappy cities that have no room to grow that shouldn't be there in the first place.

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            • #7
              Not always the case.

              Generally speaking I expand faster then the AI. Hence my "hinterlands" are closer to his capital then mine, giving him a culture advantage. I usually have to make the Temple my 3rd build (after 2 defensive units) in order to protect my borders.

              But then im not playing Chieftan ethier

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              • #8
                Firaxis forgot the attraction of Civ I and II - it's more fun to create and build than it is to destroy. You really can't play Civ 3 without being a warmonger. Which is a damn shame, because that's what made Civ I and II so great. You could actually play and win without actively pursuing war, at least on the lower difficulty levels.

                I spent a week trying to phrase this and you said it perfect.

                This is exactly the problem, some of us enjoyed the building aspect of the earlier Civ's and only went to war when needed. now that's moot. I hope they can tone down the AI in lower levels and keep it in the aggressive in the higher for those who like that. Maybe even a war/economic toggle.

                While I'm here I need coal, I'm playing a standard map and not a single coal deposit on the map, all areas seen, no trades, nothing to steal, no coal at all and it's been like that for at least 1000 years.

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                • #9
                  Ive never seen that, im sorry. But if they built that close to your capital city youll absorb the city very quickly. (Quite frankly it seems impossible, ive never seen anything near that in my games)

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                  • #10
                    If all you want to do is build and have no war play chieftan

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                    • #11
                      I had it happen in my recent game GNG. Thier was 1 square that was open near my capital and it planted a city thier. Few turns later it was absorbed. The problem is the city is useless and is taking from your other main cities.
                      We will fight them Until Hell Freezes over. Then we will fight them on the Ice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Not commenting on the cities issue, but I wholeheartedly agree with the AI not respecting your borders. Even though I'm the biggest and badest civ around and you'd think they'd try to topple me more overtly than constantly encroaching on my borders.

                        And you know what else gets me? The AI's attitude towards me WORSENS the more I kick his units out. As if he has a right to be pissed off when I ask him to leave my territory!

                        The borders for the most part are great Firaxis, big improvement over Civ 2, but some tweaking is needed-badly.
                        A plane ticket to Afghanistan: $800
                        A high powered sniper rifle: $1000
                        A hotel with accessible roof and visibility: $100
                        A shot at the head of a piece of **** like Osama bin Laden: Priceless. For everything else there's Master card.

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                        • #13
                          Post a screenie please

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Um, that's kind of hard now. I wasn't joking about Civ 3 becoming a $50 frisbee.

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                            • #15
                              Two points:

                              1. Why would an AI civ (esp. one that could be militaristic and/or expansionists) allow YOU to become large and peaceful???

                              2. Name one civ in history that become large without having to fight off enemies, internally or externally???

                              If you want a passive and predictable AI, play Civ2 or SMAC. If you want to learn how to deal with an AI that is less predictable and perhaps, clever and frustrating at times, play Civ3.

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