LE scandal - Firaxians, there has to be an explanation to 75,000 customers!

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by BigNick
I believe that's idiocy. Pure and simple. You are assuming all parties involved are willing to act illegally in order to gain a result that is, at best, marginal.

I am assuming nothing at all. If they did it for money or convenience doesn´t matter to me. I am not interested in their motives. They simply showed clearly and plainly they didn´t care; period. This is true for both Infogrames and Firaxis, but particularly Firaxis.

And blaming Infogrames is getting old; the distributor is a glorified shopkeeper. The responsibility for the product lies with the producer , as the name implies. If Firaxis desperately wanted to make sure the LE was high quality, they could. But they couldn´t care less.

[Kautilya]

Didn't Dan Magha make an announcement about the LE in these forums? Anyway I am pretty sure Firaxis knew about the LE.

BTW on reading the 6000+ views figure for this read, I realized we may have alerted hundreds of people about the crappiness of LE with this thead alone costing Firaxis thousands of dollars in LE sales.

[TCO]

Big Nick,

Nice post. Seriously.

I would only add that this situation is comparable but has some additional nuances compared to the timesheet story.

Firaxis and Sid are creative people who's name and reputations are bound up with the product. They are more than faceless contractors.

I would also add that when you have a team working to get a project done, it is useful to look out for obvious pitfalls. (beyond word for word contractual obligations.) (I've worked in construction with lots of contractors.) Head down/butt up delivery to specs (with neck firmly lodged in sand) is a recipe for disaster and litigation...

I think there is a reasonable chance that there was some sort of checkoff for final release that sent the outline of what the LE would be through Firaxis for a signature before release...

[Fidel]

it is kind of sad that this thread attracted just couple of dan's posts and did not make anyone in firaxis sit and write a short explanation. not because i started the thread but because it really shows their carelesness

[scientist]

Hurt Feelings

I have to disagree with Big Nick's legal take on this issue. Firaxis has a reputation to uphold. Legally they might not be liable (and what's involved anyway? Answer: a few bucks. My guess is that eventually we'll be told that those exciting videos (ha ha) on the second cd constitute the designer notes (ha ha ha). Legally fine

Like Field Marshall Klesh. I'm a Civ Junkie that will buy Sid Meier's stuff site unseen. Still, I was hesitant to buy the LE because I expected it to be a ripoff. Being proved right I'm now going to hesitate on upgrading to a "premium product" from Sid. When it comes time for me to consider the inevitable add-on, I'll definitely hesitate. I never bought the add-ons for Civ II or SMAC, though I've spent thousands of hours playing them.

Now, because I've been milked for $10 bucks, I'm definitely going to consider my purchases more carefully. Will I buy the future add-on? Probably, but bad reviews might make me wait until it gets to the bargain bin, as before I would have bought it immediately.

I can't really get too pissed off at the people at the software store that sold me this game. It's like getting mad at the grocery check out girl because your cheerios have rat's tail in them.

I would just really like some official explanation on why this LE was such a rip-off. And I'm going to keep complaining, publically, until I get it. I'm pissed off. It's an emotional thing. The a-holes ripped me off and first I was pleasant about it but now I would just like someone at these companies to do me the courtesy of at least explaining why I shouldn't consider them as jerks who exploited my love of their product for a quick $10 bucks.

I mean c'mon, I don't care that much if they jerk me around, but for an extra ten bucks at least give me a somewhat decent twist to the handjob.

Sorry if the vulgarity offends, but this situation with the LE just burns me up when I think about it.

[Earthling7]

Originally posted by BigNick
I'm not actually making a legal argument. Sorry. I'm not a lawyer. YMMV. If I was trying to argue legally I'd say that under the Fair Trading Act (1987) the responsibility would lie directly with the shop from which I bought the product.

The shop didn't promise the designer notes, Infogrames/Firaxis did.

[Earthling7]

Originally posted by BigNick
"Big Huge Games". BHG. Don't know what they're working on.

They're working on an RTS, AFAIK.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Earthling7


The shop didn't promise the designer notes, Infogrames/Firaxis did.

Well...you bought the game from the shop. Firaxis/Infogrames are just suppliers. It would be the same if you bought bad food at a supermarket. You go after the store, not the manufacturer.

[scientist]

Infogrames/Firaxis/Computer Stores Take Action!

Wow! I'm impressed. My local software store has made a move in the Great LE Scandal. They have affixed a sticker to the tin that says :

"This box contains:
Videos with tips and tricks and other exclusive material"

Well I'm impressed. Now they can claim that they are not deceiving anyone!

So I am posting an official note to my post:

"Don't buy the Limited Edition of Civ III. It's a rip-off!"

Now all parties concerned are legally covered.

[BigNick]

Originally posted by Earthling7


The shop didn't promise the designer notes, Infogrames/Firaxis did.

Actually, because the only ad I've seen (and made my purcasing decision based on) didn't mention the LE, IIRC it's up to the shop to make sure that the product fulfils the promises made on its packaging.

If I recall the unit of Consumer Protection I did as part of my degree, if someone took it before a Small Claims Tribunal, the adjudicator could actually issue a binding order on EB to provide a copy of the Designer Notes, but would be far more likely to oblige them to offer a refund for the product. In other words, you'd take a day off work, pay $20 for the tribunal time, and hold out hope of saving $10 by getting a refund and buying the SE.

Now, of course, I'm not a trained lawyer and free legal advice isn't worth the money, but you get the idea.

Let's just say that I have a bad taste for Infogrames and computer game premia.

[scientist]

Infogrames stinks

You hit the nail on the head, Big Nick.

Legally, the parties involved can slip out of this. From a business stand point, however, it probably is a bad idea to alienate your most loyal customers.

And finally, from an ethical standpoint, it stinks to promise something and not deliver it.

Infogrames stinks. I'm still making up my mind about Firaxis. Honestly, it would be very easy for them (Firaxis, and even Infogrames) to win me back, but they seem to not give a damn. Too bad for all of us. It hurts to see a beautiful thing sullied with such callow greed and indifference.

[Fidel]

Does anyone know Infogrames email contact? I tried to look for it at their sites but could not find. After this German thingie, I simply won't let it go. Can anyone help me? MarkG, you know their email addy?

[Fidel]

Okay, found their dodgy contacts and sent this;

Dear Mrs. Bushkin,

On behalf of a number of dissatisfied customers, I would like to draw your attention to the following case of false advertising and serious customer misleading your company committed in the recent months.

Thousands of Civilization fans bought Civ3 Limited Edition, not only to admire its tin box of bearable quality, but much more because it was advertised to include 'Designer's Notes by Sid Meier and Jeff Briggs'. Some of us undertook additional effort to have the game delivered overseas. Those boxes arrived quite some time ago, but none of us could find the advertised Notes.

Since there has been quite a disturbance on Civ3 fan forums regarding this issue, I would greatly appreciate if you could let me know what Infogrames plans to do to remedy this situation and prevent further damage to its reputation among its customers.


Sorry guys, I am not a native speaker. We'll see if they are as quick to jump to this as they were regarding German friggin' translation....

[Bereta_Eder]

wow!. This thread has grown alright!!!!!


May you emerge victorious LaRusso!


have they even written the designer's notes?

I think not.

BTW by designer's notes you mean like the ones that were in the last pages of the Civ 2 manual right?

[Fidel]

hahah paiktis, i got the following autroreply from mrs nancy

"I will be out of the office Friday, November 16th through Tuesday,
November
20th. If this is an urgent press matter, please contact Kris Sharbaugh
(212-726-4264; ksharbaugh@us.infogrames.com) or Charlotte Ostor at the
GCI
Group (212-537-8006).
If this is a technical support matter, please call 425-951-7150 or
e-mail
www.ina-support.com."

Please note that it is November 26th today and she still have not turned off autoreply arrrrgh! Makes you wonder just HOW incompetent they are.....

By designer's notes I want to see stuff that we extract painstakingly from Soren et alia here at the game boards. Like how the game works, why was something designed this or that way and some tips....that kinda stuff