Open letter to Firaxis from the scenario community

[dasaecorvic]

totally agree

Originally posted by Hans2
There is nothing wrong with the editor except for two things:
1) You can't place cities on the map
2) You can't place units on the map
If I had to add a third thing, it would be setting civ specific starting locations. Everything else is great. But WTF?! I mean, it is IMPOSSIBLE to create a 'scenario' without these two abilities. To not include them because they didn't know if their 'efforts would best be spent there' is plain foolish. Do you think we're idiots? I mean, come on guys, this stuff is so basic.

You are right Hans2. Placing units and cities on the map, and deciding the starting location are basic issues.

Greetings.

[Barnacle Bill]

Another issue that I really, really want addressed is the ability to restrict techs to certain civs and deny them to others. You could do that in Civ2, by assigning the tech a prereq of "no" but then giving it to the civ(s) you wanted to have a different tech tree (and using it as a prereq for others). Unfortunately, the AI's would trade this stuff and screw it up, so you also had to prevent the AI's from talking to each other. That last was a limitation I had hoped to see fixed for Civ3. Instead, the "no" prereq setting is absent, plus if you give a civ a free starting tech it doesn't really get it until it has all the prereqs so it wouldn't work anyway. So, in Civ3 there is no way to do it at all. This is a step backwards. It is somewhat mitigated by the new ability to limit units to select civs, but what about other stuff (buildings, governments, etc...)?

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Hoek
Scripting language is nothing without the ability to place units and cities

If all else fails, use the scripting language to place units, cities, buildins and wonders in cities, tile improvements, terrain changes, everything.

Admittedly an easier way would be nice, but still...

[H Tower]

did the letter get emailed to firaxis? they might not have seen it in all the flood of civ3 threads created after the game was released.

[techumseh]

They're on this site every day. They've seen it alright, it's at the top of the forum. They're just choosing not to respond. If you read the transcript of the 'Chat with Soren', you'll see that the issues raised in this letter were brought up near the start and ignored. Later the issue of multi-player was raised and ruled out of order by Mark G. They'll only participate in discussions in which they can look good. It's not communication, it's marketing.

[Chris 62]

This really seems a forlorn hope, but I will add my name to it.

Alcibiaties of Athenae, Scenario review editior, Civfanatics.com

AoA@Civfanatics.net

It would seem that something besides "good will" is needed to stir this particular company to action.

[Case]

Originally posted by techumseh
It's not communication, it's marketing.

In all fairness to Firaxis, they do have children to feed and bills to pay and you can't really blame them for wanting to sell as many copies of Civ 3 as possible
[though in my opinion, these sales can best be sustained by Firaxis encouraging a healthy mod/scenario community]

The last paragraph of the Jeff Morris article quoted by Hoek is encouraging (though I don't know how they're expecting a 'scenario community to develop and aid them when you can't make scenarios! )

[MagyarCrusader]

They'll only participate in discussions in which they can look good. It's not communication, it's marketing.

Bingo, and that's why they haven't gotten a cent out of me!

[Deathray]

Originally posted by techumseh
They're on this site every day. They've seen it alright, it's at the top of the forum. They're just choosing not to respond. If you read the transcript of the 'Chat with Soren', you'll see that the issues raised in this letter were brought up near the start and ignored. Later the issue of multi-player was raised and ruled out of order by Mark G. They'll only participate in discussions in which they can look good. It's not communication, it's marketing.

He told you the reasons for that:
The discussion was meant to be about AI. The questions about the editor and multiplayer weren't.
He's not allowed to discuss the patch in detail to make sure that we're not disappointed when it comes out.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Deathray


He told you the reasons for that:
The discussion was meant to be about AI. The questions about the editor and multiplayer weren't.
He's not allowed to discuss the patch in detail to make sure that we're not disappointed when it comes out.

He's not allowed to? And that's the reason? Well, that's good enough for you!

[Jason]

They'll only participate in discussions in which they can look good. It's not communication, it's marketing.

Suddenly everything anyone from this company has ever said is "marketing" because they are pointedly not talking about 2 features you want included? Fascinating interpretation.

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by Hans2
There is nothing wrong with the editor except for two things:
1) You can't place cities on the map
2) You can't place units on the map
If I had to add a third thing, it would be setting civ specific starting locations. Everything else is great. But WTF?! I mean, it is IMPOSSIBLE to create a 'scenario' without these two abilities. To not include them because they didn't know if their 'efforts would best be spent there' is plain foolish. Do you think we're idiots? I mean, come on guys, this stuff is so basic.

You Are Absolutely Correct. this stuff is basic, as the letter says.

and this basic stuff was available in civ2. from the beginning. unpatched.

[Father Beast]

Re: some Firaxian answer??

Originally posted by dasaecorvic
A word from some Firaxian would be great... just to let us know what are they planning to implement in the patch...

Greetings.

I wonder.... Firaxis at civ3.com has announced a feedback form. I wonder if we can use that to make our voices heard. if everybody who signed this letter went there....

Be Right Back

[Father Beast]

OK, I used the feedback form at civ3.com to post my thoughts and I also pasted the whole letter onto the form.

I hope everyone who agrees with the letter will do the same. It is a whole lot more difficult to ignore a bunch of mails to your official forum (where the market researcher is looking over your shoulder), than it is to ignore a bunch of people on a fansite (where a market researcher should go, but probably doesn't).

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by Hoek
Scripting language is nothing without the ability to place units and cities

I did not say otherwise.