Open letter to Firaxis from the scenario community

[dasaecorvic]

some Firaxian answer??

A word from some Firaxian would be great... just to let us know what are they planning to implement in the patch...

Greetings.

[klesh]

Originally posted by BeBro
Good to see this thread here , an answer from a firaxian would be great...

Well, it doesnt seem to be carrying much weight here, does it Bernd.

-FMK.

[MagyarCrusader]

If Firaxis cannot make a very good patch by Christmas, atleast by the end of January... I say people should Boycott them until they do produce a very good patch fixing atleast all of the bugs, add missing features, a better scenario editor, etc...

Yeah, I've already boycotted this game, and Firaxis. All you suckers who bought the game have just encouraged them to be @$$holes. Thanks a lot!

[Your.Master]

Originally posted by [LordLMP]
If Firaxis cannot make a very good patch by Christmas, atleast by the end of January... I say people should Boycott them until they do produce a very good patch fixing atleast all of the bugs, add missing features, a better scenario editor, etc...

Fat chance

[Darkknight]

Originally posted by yin26

I never patched Heroes of Might and Magic 3, though I suppose there was one ... just never saw a need. Then again, I was just playing that game casually and didn't analyze it to death. Having said that, however, I never saw anything that ruined the game or distracted me from enjoying it.

I never used the civ2 patch I do have Civ2FW that loads 2.42 but I haven't installed that in my latest re-installation of civ2.

[dansch]

Another scenario designer weighs in on the side of a more sophisticated editor.

I am not terribly disturbed that it did not ship in the first version. I will not even be unhappy if it ends up being part of a future retail add-on. I just want to se it happen.

On the list of strategy games Civilization (the series) is simply and easily number one. Part of the reason is its "legs." Those legs are exceptionally long due to the scenario editor and scenarios resulting from the player community. I sincerely hope that will continue to be an important part of the Civ experience. I know I got perhaps more pleasure out of playing with scenarios designs than I did from those "just one more turn" sessions that had me draggging through work the next day innumerable times.

Civ III has already ruined a few nights of sleep for me... no complaints on the game itself.

Dan Scheltema
Slash & Burn, and a couple others I never quite published

[Jay Bee]

Hey Dan, long time no hear!

Send those unpublished scens to me, please! Same e-mail as always.

[techumseh]

It's been a couple of days since our letter was posted. It's now fair to ask if Firaxis will respond and when. I hope that if and when they do, we keep the discussion polite and to the point. Rants, angry red faces and threats of boycotts won't encourage them to discuss our concerns. So let's keep it civil.

Firaxis?

[Hoek]

Okay, but Civ II had some basic tools. Scripting language is important, but Civ III doesn't even have the basics needed for a scenario! That's a real slap in the face to the whole scenario-creation community.

The main reason that civ 2 lasted so long is because people found creative ways of using the game. Whether through creation, multiplayer, competitions, or "challenges," it was because of us, the civ players that the game lasted so long. Firaxis caved to pressure to get it out quick, which was a mistake. It shows that Firaxis isn't as committed to the community as we had thought. Now we need to pressure Firaxis to think about us more because we are customers, and I for one am not going to buy it until I see a good editor patch.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Hoek
Okay, but Civ II had some basic tools. Scripting language is important, but Civ III doesn't even have the basics needed for a scenario! That's a real slap in the face to the whole scenario-creation community.

Exactly! One would expect later generations of a game to expand and improve upon those previous. W.r.t Customizing/scenarios/editting this one doesn't. Scenario makers basically don't seem to have the ability to do anything at all at present. A giant step backwards.

and I for one am not going to buy it until I see a good editor patch.

Ditto for me. I wouldn't even have finished my first game of civ3 before at least trying out the editting capabilities. There just doesn't seem to be enough incentive for me to buy it while such a large (potential) portion of the game is absent.
Certainly not without at least knowing what is planned for it in the near future.

[Hoek]

I'm also dissappointed at the lack of response from Firaxis yet. It's rude (and misleading) to keep your fans (especially ones who are as dedicated as scenario-makers are) in the dark. The Civ 3 website really played up the editing capabilities without actually coming through! Why is it that Dan Manghas can open a thread about the science advisor but not address the concerns of scenario-makers. I think most of us would be less upset if there was at least some basic information as to what they plan on including in the editor patches and how soon will it come.

[Hoek]

Here's the latest "developer's notes" from the Civ 3 website:

By Jeff Morris
Firaxis Games

One of the enduring strengths of the Civilization franchise has been its ability to be customized by the fans. It's really a matter of 'resolution'. Whereas the developers of the core game take upon themselves the challenge of surveying the entirety of human history, the fans can render specific periods of time in as much detail as they can muster. This versatility is a real marquee feature, transforming a title about mankind's civilizations into a gaming construction kit for any setting imaginable.

When we approached the editing tools for Civilization III, we were determined to offer a contemporary customization environment. In previous incarnations of this franchise, users were capable of making radical changes to the game systems, but often needed to locate and edit text files to do so. In Civilization III these changes are still possible, but can now be made within an application that follows the interface rules of standard Windows programs. This editor not only allows you to alter game elements such as advances, civilizations, units and wonders (to name a few), but also includes a robust map editor. Using the editor, users are empowered to create scenarios that we never dreamt of during development.

The editors in Civilization III are only the beginning. Based on feedback from the mod and scenario community we will make additional improvements and incorporate new features. The editors are just tools, ones that the fan community needs to make meaningful by creating new scenarios with. As those in the 'trenches' of creating new content run into limitations, we'll work on eradicating those barriers. Firaxis is very interested in Civilization III having an active mod community, but need to know where our efforts are best spent. Together we can make Civilization III a potent platform for not only exploring factual history, but also your creativity and interests.

and here is a screenshot of the editor:








From the looks of it, they built the editor into the system, and actually used it themselves to set the rules for the game. The interface of the editor is very nice, and it seems to do a very nice job at easing up text editing. However, it's clear that the designers of the game were on a strict time budget. You know, now that I think about it, it might be possible that they held off on editing changes until they got a better idea of what kinds of things to include. I don't know, though.

[Hans2]

There is nothing wrong with the editor except for two things:
1) You can't place cities on the map
2) You can't place units on the map
If I had to add a third thing, it would be setting civ specific starting locations. Everything else is great. But WTF?! I mean, it is IMPOSSIBLE to create a 'scenario' without these two abilities. To not include them because they didn't know if their 'efforts would best be spent there' is plain foolish. Do you think we're idiots? I mean, come on guys, this stuff is so basic.

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by Hans2
There is nothing wrong with the editor except for two things:
1) You can't place cities on the map
2) You can't place units on the map
If I had to add a third thing, it would be setting civ specific starting locations. Everything else is great. But WTF?! I mean, it is IMPOSSIBLE to create a 'scenario' without these two abilities. To not include them because they didn't know if their 'efforts would best be spent there' is plain foolish. Do you think we're idiots? I mean, come on guys, this stuff is so basic.

SCRIPTING!?!

[Hoek]

Scripting language is nothing without the ability to place units and cities