Repairing corruption

[Ray K]

This is for those players that do not like the incredible amount of corruption added to Civ3 since Civ2.

In the scenario editor, go to "World Maps" and you'll see a 'Optimal # Cities' variable which controls the max. # of cities you can grow to before corruption is used to protect the AI from your growing empire.

For the different map sizes, here is the limit set by the Firaxis designers:
Tiny - 8 cities
Small - 12
Standard - 16
Large - 24
Huge - 32


I did an experiment and started up an earlier save game. I was playing the Greeks (commercial) and the furthermost city was having the following corruption, before and after rush-building a courthouse:

before courthouse: 4 good shields, 6 corrupted shields
after courthouse: 6 good shields, 4 corrupted shields


Then I used the editor to effectively remove the city limit by changing the "Optimal #of Cities" variable to a high limit (256). I reloaded the saved game and saw this:

before courthouse: 7 good shields, 3 corrupted shields
after courthouse: 8 good shields, 2 corrupted shields

This city was on the same continent as my capital, I was a Republic and playing a commercial civ. Corruption is not eliminated (which I don't want anyway), but it is at a more Civ2-like level. Basically, it will be based on distance now, not distance and # cities. Far-flung empires will still be hard to hold onto.

Note that this change does not unbalance the game in favor of the player, since the AI will benefit from reduced corruption as well. What it does do is restore the original intent of the Civilization game: to build an empire and try to conquer the world.

Problem solved!

[CygnusZ]

1) You have to learn to deal with corruption, it's part of the challange. It really isn't so bad.
2) The goal of Civilization is not "Take over the world"
I won by making the world very good freinds with me.
You could by getting votes in the UN.
You could also win by building a Space Ship.

None of these victories are easy, all must be earned.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by CygnusZ
1) You have to learn to deal with corruption, it's part of the challange. It really isn't so bad.
2) The goal of Civilization is not "Take over the world"
I won by making the world very good freinds with me.
You could by getting votes in the UN.
You could also win by building a Space Ship.

None of these victories are easy, all must be earned.

What's really cool is that now I can win with the UN, win with culture, build a spaceship OR win with conquest. It's my choice. Nothing has been taken away.

Note that winning by conquest is one of the options described for the game. Also note that fixing the corruption problem benefits the AI as well.

If you don't think corruption is so bad, play on a Tiny map

[CygnusZ]

You can win with conquest even with the curroption. It's not impossible, just harder.

You'd be suprised what's possible with a big enough bankroll

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Ray K
If you don't think corruption is so bad, play on a Tiny map

Why would you need more than 8 cities on a tiny map?

I suppose on that map you can win with 8 or less cities.

[yavoon]

u complain for months on how civ2 is too easy, and how civ3 will be no different. the game is out no more than 3 days, u alrady deem a feature too hard, and make it more like civ2.

does no1 else find this hilarious? and I guarentee you that the ur performance against the ai will be greatly improved by weakaning this rule of the game.

but hey, now u can complain about it being too easy again, right?

[Ray K]

Originally posted by yavoon
u complain for months on how civ2 is too easy, and how civ3 will be no different. the game is out no more than 3 days, u alrady deem a feature too hard, and make it more like civ2.

does no1 else find this hilarious? and I guarentee you that the ur performance against the ai will be greatly improved by weakaning this rule of the game.

but hey, now u can complain about it being too easy again, right?

who are you talking to? when did I complain about Civ2 being too easy? oh yeah, you're making making a weak point. Have you played Civ3 yet? I'm not the only one who thinks corruption is way too strong. Go score your brownie points with your Firaxis pals somewhere else.

personally, I don't appreciate the Firaxis designers dictating an upper limit for your Civilization's size. It has never been part of the Civilization series and it shouldn't be now. Corruption is still in the game, it's just at 50% on the edge of my empire rather than 99% (i.e. only one good shield allowed).

I played with this patch last night and, for the first time, an AI from another continent aggressively expanded onto mine!

[dainbramaged13]

Originally posted by CygnusZ
It really isn't so bad.

theres where youre wrong, if i have 13 production in a city, no matter how far away from my capital, i should have more than 1 active prodoctuion. This is ridiculus!

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


Why would you need more than 8 cities on a tiny map?

I suppose on that map you can win with 8 or less cities.

Well, the game limits you to only 4 total civs on a small map, so 8 cities apiece would leave half of the Tiny map unpopulated! I helped that out by modifying the game to allow me to playing against any number of civs on a Tiny map (I usually play with 8 total).

The whole point of the change is to allow "win by conquest" to be a viable option again.

I never used the Infinite City Sleaze on Civ2, and preventing that is obviously one motivation for the "Optimal # Cities" rule.

#1: "um, how are we going to stop the Infinite City Strategy in Civ3?"
#2: "well, we could fundamentally change the way tiles are worked so that size-1 cities are not proportionally advantageous"
#1: "ooh, that will be hard. how about if we just set a cap on the number of cities"
#2: "that's too simple. think of something better."

...a month passes...

#2: "did you ever figure out a fix to the ICS?"
#1: "um yeah, how about a cap on the number of cities?"
#2: "sounds intriguing, keep brainstorming"

...another month passes....

#2: "did you ever figure out a fix to the ICS?"
#1: "yeah, we came up with a great idea! how about a cap on the number of cities?"
#2: "that is a great idea! put it in the alpha code for testing, and we'll replace it if something better comes up"

...another month passes....

Tester: "this corruption is killing me!"
#1: "it's a new feature. read the manual, dude"
Tester: "I did. How am I supposed to build a courthouse or a Forbidden Palace in these cities? This blows chunks"
#1: "hey, check out these new animations!"
Tester: "cool! oh, and thanks for the donuts"

... software released....

[Scott_S]

Re: Repairing corruption

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ray K

I did an experiment and started up an earlier save game. I was playing the Greeks (commercial) and the furthermost city was having the following corruption, before and after rush-building a courthouse:

Then I used the editor to effectively remove the city limit by changing the "Optimal #of Cities" variable to a high limit (256). I reloaded the saved game and saw this:

(end quote)


Pray tell how did you utilize the editor to edit the saved game?

I can't find the map file for my saved game.

Any help here would be GREATLY apprecaited!

Best Regards,

Scott

[Nikolai]

RayK: You evil, evil man... Guess Dan Magaha is crying now!

[General Ludd]

Bah!

If I am going to change corruption it's going to be to add more. The more difficult the challange, the more fun the game is.

I just don't see how someone can find steam rolling over the world any fun.

[Ray K]

Re: Bah!

Originally posted by Osweld
If I am going to change corruption it's going to be to add more. The more difficult the challange, the more fun the game is.

I just don't see how someone can find steam rolling over the world any fun.

Please tell me you are being sarcastic. The current scheme has the corruption so bad that you could have 15 shields of production and 14 are corrupt. You can't make that worse, since the game is obviously giving you one token shield.

Besides, reducing corruption back to Civ2 levels cuts both ways. In my first game, the AI seemed more expansive. Could have been a fluke, though. Regardless, I'm not a sado-masochist. I play the game to have fun, not beat my head against a wall.

[Ray K]

Re: Re: Repairing corruption

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Scott_S

Originally posted by Ray K

I did an experiment and started up an earlier save game. I was playing the Greeks (commercial) and the furthermost city was having the following corruption, before and after rush-building a courthouse:

Then I used the editor to effectively remove the city limit by changing the "Optimal #of Cities" variable to a high limit (256). I reloaded the saved game and saw this:

(end quote)


Pray tell how did you utilize the editor to edit the saved game?

I can't find the map file for my saved game.

Any help here would be GREATLY apprecaited!

Best Regards,

Scott

Well, I didn't edit the saved game.

I used the CivEdit editor to modify the default parameters file (civ3mod.bic, I think) to raise the "Optimal # Cities" parameter for each of the maps. I set the limit to 256. I loaded the saved game before and after this change to see the effect of corruption on a distant city before and after building a courthouse.

VERY IMPORTANT WARNING: before modifying the default parameters file, make a backup copy in case you muck things up. This warning comes straight from Firaxis.

Hope that helps.

[Kristjan]

who are you talking to? when did I complain about Civ2 being too easy?

I did for instance and many others did it as well.

oh yeah, you're making making a weak point. Have you played Civ3 yet? I'm not the only one who thinks corruption is way too strong. Go score your brownie points with your Firaxis pals somewhere else.

Could you please avoid flaming like that in the future? Please?

personally, I don't appreciate the Firaxis designers dictating an upper limit for your Civilization's size. It has never been part of the Civilization series and it shouldn't be now

That is not true. Civ2 has unhappyness caused by civ size.