Illegal is illegal, and not legal!

[Mannamagnus]

Leve Vlaanderen!

[drake]

I was upset about not having Mp in civ3.....and I am going to wait till the game has it before I buy it....thats what? Months and months away? (If at all)

And guess what, many people, condemned others for being impatient and whiny about not getting mp with the game. How is this any different? It's "discrimination" in the same exact sense.

American markets for games are larger than those in other markets as a whole. Just as the market for sp games is larger than those in the mp market as a whole. It comes down to this. They are going where the money is. Thats how businesses work. I've accepted this. Now everyone else needs to accept it as well.......and if anyone feels really strongly about it, they should show their consumer power and boycott buying the game.

I've accepted that it will be months atleast before I get civ3. Nothing I can do about it, so why worry? My life isn't going to fall apart if I dont get it right away...and neither is the people overseas who can't get a legit copy right away.

The best things are always worth waiting for.

[Meisman]

If they're going where the money is, why not also go to Europe (or Australia, etc, don't wanna offend anyone)? That would be more money wouldn't it?

[Lee Johnson]

Lousy analogy Lee. He's not taking anything away; worst case he's denying someone something.

Ha! I was waiting for somebody to say this. I know I'm shouting into the wind here, but let me try to explain it for those unclear about the concept:

It's not about physical objects. When you buy software, you're not just paying for the trivial cost of the recording media, manual, and packaging: You're paying for the right to use the software--and indirectly, compensating the people who created the software, which cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars to develop. The fact that someone can make perfect copies of this stuff for next to zero cost does not alter the fact that he has not paid for the right to use it, in the same way that I have no right to come to your house and start using your car without permission. So, yeah--he's denying somebody something: He's denying them the money they should have received for the product they produced!

SOFTWARE PIRACY IS NOT A VICTIMLESS CRIME!

Lord God Almighty--why is this so hard for some people to understand?

I work in the software industry. I've seen years of my hard work cracked and distributed by nameless thieves who didn't care that they were figurately stealing food off of my table. So, yeah, this a touchy subject for me.

And he's not even doing that because he bought it anyway.

No, in the example I quote (and in a few other cases) he only claims to have bought the sequels; he never paid for the original.

I'm done with this thread; if I haven't changed anyone's mind by now, I very much doubt that anything else I can say is going to make a difference.

[Earthling7]

Originally posted by Lee Johnson
When you buy software, you're not just paying for the trivial cost of the recording media, manual, and packaging: You're paying for the right to use the software

Thank you Lee. You've just made the point most pirates here have been trying to get across. Most have said they will use the warez version until their pre-order arrives or it becomes available in the shops.

This does mean that if I pre-order Civ3 and my credit card gets charged, I am allowed to use the software. Period. Right?

[drake]

If they're going where the money is, why not also go to Europe (or Australia, etc, don't wanna offend anyone)? That would be more money wouldn't it?

No doubt meisman. My point is that they go where the most money is first. There will be more units sold in US then any other country, guaranteed.

They will get to others in time, (just as they will get to MP and scenario stuff in time). All I'm proposing is a bit of patience.

I don't see why anyone HAS to have this game RIGHT NOW....I really don't get that.

Like someone said, games are a luxury, not a necessity and should not be talked of like they are.

[Mannamagnus]

If it makes you feel any better, you can come and steal my Seat Ibiza.

[Rosacrux]

Originally posted by Lee Johnson


"Do you have a car? I'm coming over to take it. If I like it, I'll buy next year's model."

You just don't get it, do you?

No, dear, you are the one who doesn't get it. Very poor analogy, indeed (as mentioned by others).

Let me put it in a more clear way, since you seem to be slow and/or too childish to understand what I am saying. I'll even make it "point by point", so it really gets in your mind:

point 1: Piracy is alive and kicking. No matter what measures the companies apply, the piracy industry (ie violation of the copyright) shall live on - that is reality.

point 2: (made already by others) Don't compare apples with hazelnut - we are not talking about a product, we are talking about the license to use something. You don't buy the program, you buy the right to use the program. Big difference.

point 3: You can try a car before you buy it. You can try a TV before you buy it. You can listen to a song before buying the album. You can read the summary and some pages of a book before buying it - the same should apply to games, so simple. If a demo is out and instead using this you go to a pirated version of the full game... yes, that would be out of my list. But this is not the case, right?

point 4: A game is not anything like a car - it serves solely recreational purposes and as that it's expiration date is pretty close to the purchase. Couple that with the fact that it costs a considerable amount of money - where does that leads us? To my previous saying about kids unable to afford all the games they wish to (because the magazines say they should get them, because their friends have them... because... because...).

Still don't get?

[drake]

Thank you Lee. You've just made the point most pirates here have been trying to get across. Most have said they will use the warez version until their pre-order arrives or it becomes available in the shops.

This does mean that if I pre-order Civ3 and my credit card gets charged, I am allowed to use the software. Period. Right?

Yes, You personally have the right to the software. But Warez sites arent set up in a way where only legit customers get the dl's.

More copies are being made by people that have no intention of paying a dime, than copies from legit, honest people. The whole warez system is corruption at its highest level, and by participating in it (in any way) is contributing to the corruption.

[Bakunine]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Not delay. Probably shipping issues.

Have the CD's that are being sold in the USA been made there?

Probably they were made in some asian cheap labour country.

[drake]

Have the CD's that are being sold in the USA been made there?

Probably they were made in some asian cheap labour country.

Whats the point?
Besides promoting your off topic agenda.

[Meisman]

No doubt meisman. My point is that they go where the most money is first. There will be more units sold in US then any other country, guaranteed.

Ok, but why can't they start selling it everywhere at the same time, on October 31st? That's my whole point. I don't understand their reason to delay the release date outside the US. It doesn't make sense and apparently pisses off a lot of people.

[King_Of_Hearts]

Now please stop with throwing dirt and give me a link where I can download Civ3 (btw this is quite entertaining )

[Rasbelin]

Re: Re: Illegal is illegal, and not legal!

Originally posted by Faboba

Yes yes yes yes. We're all rich guys from Finland who happen to have a law exonerating the acts everyone else is now supposed to feel guilty for.

Faboba, I have never claimed that I would
be rich. Far away from that!
I'm just making a point that you should follow
the written laws; that why they excist.
Ask yourself, is it fair to make illegal copies
on Civ III? Perhaps you should study your
local laws for further details on the punishments
for spreading illegal software.

[Earthling7]

Originally posted by drake
More copies are being made by people that have no intention of paying a dime, than copies from legit, honest people. The whole warez system is corruption at its highest level, and by participating in it (in any way) is contributing to the corruption.

I know that and I'm not defending those that distribute warez. The reason why I am taking this stand is that I fail to understand why some suit&tie in a board room somewhere decides to release Civ in America 18 days before any place else. It is a decision that makes no sence, even if there was no piracy. The fact that piracy thrives makes that decision even more puzzling.

All I want to know is WHY? What is the reason for the delay, and for prohibiting overseas orders?