First Impressions

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Colonel Kraken
Wow, you're able to deduce all that about my personality just from that little bit, huh? Not only do you misjudge me, you follow the path of most others on these forums who criticize the game. Namely, belittle others who disagree with you and misrepresent them in an absurd way.

I don't deduce anything about anyone, and if I have made assumptions of your personality or offended you personally I do appologize. I do not intend on belittling anyone, but people like yourself are lowering the Firaxian standards by filling their heads with posative bibble babble that the game is fine the way it is. And that directly violates any chance of the critics gaining ground in the crusade to improve what they feel is wrong with the game. So indirectly your "good opinions" although meant no harm, are only getting in the way, however don't get me wrong I'm not saying that people don't have a right to enjoy this game or talk about it. I'm simply stating that in order for the critics to get their job done, we have to make Firaxis aware that the game isn't so good and it needs work.

Perhaps if you had read the rest of my post: "I don't pretend to apologize for Infogrames pushing the game out the door and rushing the Firaxis team to complete it without testing and tidying up the loose ends. I agree that there may be a couple of fundamental problems that should not have made it out to the public." you would not have been so flippant in your remarks.

No, you described Civilization III's problems as if they were a minority issue and passed them off as if half of them where delusions made up by exagerating whiners, at least that's how you came across to me. "I agree that there may be a couple fundamental problems" it sounds like your making light of the existing problems or treating them with very little concern. Maybe you should state your awareness level as to how your dealing with the problems with the product so that I can understand your entire view, which hopefully is a non-biased one.

As I said, I know there are problems as well. But to listen to you and others like you, many would tend to believe the game is a POS. Well, I'm sorry, but it is not. It's a very decent game that can be made even better. There is no doubt it is not everything everyone had hoped for, but it would seem that the Firaxis team is dedicated to make the effort to improve it and resolve some more of the pressing issues --as I stated, "I am confident that the Firaxis team is truly devoted to provide continued support and improvement for the game." This is certainly evident with the recent announcement from Jeff Moris.

No, now your making presumptions of my personality. I don't deny that Firaxis is working on the growing list of issues with Civ3, they have to in order to prevent the mobs from ruining sales. But I do deny entirely that they have bothered to nurse and cradle their community through this hard time. Obviously people are upset, and asside from the real "whiners without a cause" the rest of us are hardcore fans and deserve better treatment. And my current opinion with no offense meant to you, that Civ3 IS a POS. I'm not amused at all, and I've spent 100+ hours already on the largest map with 16 civs at the highest difficulty level. I'm astonished that people are okay with the way the game is, but that can mean only one thing in my mind, they are easily amused. And anyone with logic would also apply the same theory had they really criticised the product, or just bought it and went to bed with it. [...shrug...]

Your descriptions of my personality make me chuckle because the way you describe yourself ("perfectionist", "very picky") are the same words others would use to describe me. I certainly am able to pick out glaring flaws in the design of a game. Unfortunately, many of these "flaws" that are stated about Civ3 are nothing more than disagreement on the design of the game (I'm talking about fundamental design decisions). Many of the other perceived flaws, as I stated "can be taken care of with the editor." Not all, mind you, but many. As far as the other issues, they should be pointed out to Firaxis in the hopes that they will be resolved.

"nothing more than disagreement on the design of the game" this is why I'm disputed your point, because you take the list of problems and shrink it with a proclaimed non-biased vocabulary and than step on it as if to put a fire out. You try to maintain that your non-biased and that you agree with the design flaws yet you do not completely pay tribute to their existance. With that said I'm now confused as to what your orignal point really was, other than revealing yourself as another overly-optimistic easily amused fanboy, by analagy ofcoarse - no offense or name calling was intended.

I'm not opposed to your getting "down and dirty with all the game flaws", but in this post I am merely attempting to give my take on playing CivIII as my "First Impressions" --consistent with the title of this thread. I wished merely to give at least some sort of positive feedback to others who may still be considering buying the game. From your posts, it would seem that CivIII is not worth one red cent and certainly not worth one second of your time. Tell me, then, if the product is so bad, why do you care to even bother with it? I have purchased games in the past that I thought were going to be terrific. I had such a horrible time with them, I don't care how much patching they would have done, I would not have bothered myself with playing it anymore. In the case of CivIII, I want a good product be made into the best product of its kind.

Because obviously I have a passion for this game, and am willing to wait to see what it becomes. As I said before (which you obviously neglected to read) I have been a fan of this game since the early 90's. And due to the passion I have for this game-concept I have devoted myself (like others) to improving it as much as possible. And if I did things the way you appear to do them, I would be trapped in utopia without a worry or concern for anything. But asside from spending $50 on this game (which might I add - could feed a starving child for a month in some countries) I have spent so much time following the Civilization concept and community that I will be there for it to the end good or bad. I've earned my right (seat) to complain however I please, and I always have the basic right of freedom of speech, so with that being stated, your opposition of my complaints bares no weight.

That's the viewpoint I approach it from. So, take you flawed cynicism, and bury it.

The only thing I'm going to bury is the game inside it's box, ofcoarse not even that is possible because I've refunded it.

I want Firaxis to make a product I enjoy into a wonderful product. You want Firaxis to take a product that has "problems with every corner" and make it into something it is not. If I found a game with so many problems, I'd ditch it. Why don't you? I guess you're too busy "looking to first see what is wrong with a product before I look for the good in it." The rest of us will encourage Firaxis to make their good product better. Sad but true, Sorry.

No, I guess you're only available debate tactic is that of a last resort; to twist my words around and use them on me. I never contested that I wanted more than a team of proffesional game designers could offer, and that is all. And if they do the difficult and uproot some of the coding and make modifications here and there, they can make a splendid editor loaded with a "no-limit" customizability factor. The question is, will they. And as I said before, you may just "ditch it" but only for the better lack of caring for the product in question, need I remind you that the two major Civilization websites are "FAN" sites, maybe you should look up the meaning of "FAN" and than tell me that if I don't like it, I should "ditch it" that way at least you would have ground to stand on. Right now your asking me to give up 8 years of fanhood and throw Civilization away. Well I did refund it, but that doesn't mean that I've given up my rights as a consumer to dispute the reasoning in it. As I said before (hopefully for the last time) I've earned my seat.

Charles.

[Colonel Kraken]

I'm not going to go 'round and 'round with you, Charles.

But, for what it's worth:

Here's my initial reaction to your post et al:
Heres my subsequent reaction:



Good day!

Colonel out.



p.s.

Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
Civ3 IS a POS

'nough said

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Colonel Kraken
I'm not going to go 'round and 'round with you, Charles.

But, for what it's worth:

Here's my initial reaction to your post et al:
Heres my subsequent reaction:

Good day!

Colonel out.

p.s. 'nough said

Giving up so soon?

well then...

Here's my initial reaction to your posts:
Here's my subsequent reaction:

PS. I guess the game can't be that good if the constant refining of lies can't be turned into truths anymore.

Charles.

[Raion]

I have ran across entire whole games that one can not change, because they will not work any other way.
No one complains about those games, but they just do not buy them any more.
Now it comes to this game, and all of you think that you are the boss about this game. You are not, nor has anyone played it long enough to know how it was intended.
At least with this game, there are things you can change, but if you want to do it and put up with the crap that people dish out, then you are all welcome to write your own game.

Sure some things will change maybe later in a patch, but this kind of indifference to what you people think you want and what you do, is not what anyone wants to hear anymore.

Entire whole games have been there as it is on the shelf, take it or leave it.

Personally, I do not think you people need any games, just have some need to complain about anyone and everything that you think is wrong.

Why bother the rest of us with it?

You purpose that if you do not tell anyone, that they will not know it, I really doubt that, but to the extent of some people, get a life!

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by yin26
Well, I did my absolute best to help you save your money.

We're the smart ones.

Boycott stands.

[Colonel Kraken]

I knew it. I knew it! I knew you couldn't resist, Charles --like shootin' fish in a barrel.

Originally posted by CharlesUFarley



Giving up so soon?

well then...

Here's my initial reaction to your posts:

Evil grin? Now, what do you mean by that? Was I easy pickin's?

Here's my subsequent reaction:

Oh, now come on, our discussion was anything but boring.

PS. I guess the game can't be that good if the constant refining of lies can't be turned into truths anymore.

Charles.

Ouch. OUCH! That hurt. You're killing me here, Charles. C'mon, now, you can do better than that.

Oh, Charles, you're so much fun. I do sincerely love going 'round and 'round with you. But I don't want to bore the rest of the readers of this thread with our bouts. We know who'd come out on top in a face to face confrontation anyway.

You know, I have this sneaky suspicion that you and I are very similar. I'm sure if we met in person we'd get along splendidly.

Here's to you for receiving my words ***(Hah, hah. It blocked out ***.) for tat. I imagine we'll just agree to disagree. I like the game (for the most part); you find the game, in its current iteration, a waste of time. That's fine; obviously not everyone is going to like/dislike the same things. That's what marketing's all about!

By the way, do you mind if I ask how old you? Just curious.

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by Raion
I have ran across entire whole games that one can not change, because they will not work any other way.
No one complains about those games, but they just do not buy them any more.
Now it comes to this game, and all of you think that you are the boss about this game. You are not, nor has anyone played it long enough to know how it was intended.
At least with this game, there are things you can change, but if you want to do it and put up with the crap that people dish out, then you are all welcome to write your own game.

Sure some things will change maybe later in a patch, but this kind of indifference to what you people think you want and what you do, is not what anyone wants to hear anymore.

Entire whole games have been there as it is on the shelf, take it or leave it.

Personally, I do not think you people need any games, just have some need to complain about anyone and everything that you think is wrong.

Why bother the rest of us with it?

You purpose that if you do not tell anyone, that they will not know it, I really doubt that, but to the extent of some people, get a life!

Oh, Charles, this sure is one big fat juicy target for you!

[CharlesUFarley]

( rubbing hands together )

Originally posted by Raion
I have ran across entire whole games that one can not change, because they will not work any other way.
No one complains about those games, but they just do not buy them any more.

Exactly ... "no one buys them anymore" which implies two things, first the products are a big loss in quality, second the company reputation has fouled to the point that it has affected sales. Nor you or I or anyone for that matter can say what is a "good game" and what is a "bad game" because one thing is for sure, only 'sales' can determine that. And just because Civ3 has sold many copies in it's first term, doesn't mean that it will continue to do so. My opinion is that in time Civ3 will either be the abomination of Firaxis products or it will be saved just in the nick of time.

Now it comes to this game, and all of you think that you are the boss about this game. You are not, nor has anyone played it long enough to know how it was intended.

Okay let me see here, not only are we bossy but we have no idea what Civilization III was designed for or how it was designed [...scratching head...] there goes my 8 years of Civilization knowledge down the tube, thanks for making me see the light Raion. Btw, what is Raion anyway? Is that another word for mustard or something? Just curious.

At least with this game, there are things you can change, but if you want to do it and put up with the crap that people dish out, then you are all welcome to write your own game.

'things we can change' well I will admit that, you can change alot with Civilization III's greatly expanded editor, and scenario design tools, not to mention it's vast and colorful organic maps. Wow! I'm amused! But seriously.. Civilization II blows Civilization III away when it comes to customization and scenario design, so what is there that you can change that has real value to the mod-community, oh wait... I'm not very good at playing Civ3, in fact I suck.. I'll just tweak the Legion defensive value to say.... 100.. ahh... thats better. Oh, now that you've given me the widsom to see the error in my ways, forget the hundreds of dollars and the many years of comitment [...Fling...]I've thrown away my copy of Civ3... now I'm going off into the woods to design my own game now! Bubeye.

Sure some things will change maybe later in a patch, but this kind of indifference to what you people think you want and what you do, is not what anyone wants to hear anymore.

Oh... so now you speak for the other 3.9 million fans out there too? Who are you and what part of France did you come from? Buddy, it's only a game which we bought and now we have the right to b_tch about, or has 'freedom of speech' been cancelled in France? Well last time I checked we were allowed to discuss Civ3 (good or bad) in these forums without any neopolianic dictators telling us how to take a dump! Raion along now (cough) Run along now.

Entire whole games have been there as it is on the shelf, take it or leave it.

You hear that people! They aren't just colorful walls at the game store, you can actually purchase those things! I'm excited.

Personally, I do not think you people need any games, just have some need to complain about anyone and everything that you think is wrong.

Yeah I bought my copy of Civ3 and shortly after playing it and realizing that I didn't like it, I decided that my new goal is "world domination" so I joined a Canadian Satanic Cult and decided to make everyone's lives miserable from now on, I figure a useless and hardly known forum like this one would be the best place to start, what do you think?

Why bother the rest of us with it?

"the rest of us" who are you talking about when you keep referring to a mass or group behind you (looking over your shoulder) I don't see anyone but your shadow. I'm sorry does it offend you to read game-criticism, perhaps you better have some milk and cookies and tuck yourself into a better story next time. Geez.

You purpose that if you do not tell anyone, that they will not know it, I really doubt that, but to the extent of some people, get a life!

It's "perpose" not all purpose flour you plick.

PS. How was that Colonel?

Charles.

[Raion]

I am not going to say that CivIII may not have problems.
I think that they took the computer game and made the people the computer, and the computer the human player -- from CivII.
I still have Dos-Civ, and that is one bad game, if I even remember it.
But, I think Firaxis will patch this game, until it is something worthwhile, or else I just been buying games that leave me little to be satisfied with.
Just to me Civ III is funnier, and since playing on King level in Civ II, a while back now, I rather spend $50-65 on Civ III than AOE, which I also have, and both of them, they are the ones that sit on the shelf.

I guess it's not important if I win at Civ III right off the bat.
Raion is like Ray-On, or something like that.
Back to homework.



oh, the gang is the other reviewers of Civ III at gamespot who rated it high because it was hard to play, and for being different than previous versions, who have at least a little faith in Firaxis to develop the game even further.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Raion
I am not going to say that CivIII may not have problems.
I think that they took the computer game and made the people the computer, and the computer the human player -- from CivII.
I still have Dos-Civ, and that is one bad game, if I even remember it.
But, I think Firaxis will patch this game, until it is something worthwhile, or else I just been buying games that leave me little to be satisfied with.
Just to me Civ III is funnier, and since playing on King level in Civ II, a while back now, I rather spend $50-65 on Civ III than AOE, which I also have, and both of them, they are the ones that sit on the shelf.

I guess it's not important if I win at Civ III right off the bat.
Raion is like Ray-On, or something like that.
Back to homework.



oh, the gang is the other reviewers of Civ III at gamespot who rated it high because it was hard to play, and for being different than previous versions, who have at least a little faith in Firaxis to develop the game even further.

Ok.

Charles.

[Colonel Kraken]

Re: ( rubbing hands together )

Originally posted by CharlesUFarley


PS. How was that Colonel?

Charles.

Nice . . .

You sure are something else, Charles. You just love slamming and making fun of others, don't you?

You should try being nicer. Hmmm . . . maybe you have "issues."

I've had a psych class or two; maybe I can help.

--Colonel

[Raion]

Apparently, the people playing the tournament games here are able to play CIV III.
And they have scores!

[CharlesUFarley]

Re: Re: ( rubbing hands together )

Originally posted by Colonel Kraken


Nice . . .

You sure are something else, Charles. You just love slamming and making fun of others, don't you?

You should try being nicer. Hmmm . . . maybe you have "issues."

I've had a psych class or two; maybe I can help.

--Colonel

Oh no, I definately have issues. And the fact that they're locked inside my head bouncing around in a frolic of evil multiple personality.. really throws me through the fabrics of reality every now and then. You might also call it "pissed off".

PS. I'm sorry if I appear mean, but some people are just so stupid they walk right into it. If you're going to argue, use a little wisdom blended with facts. Otherwise bend over and kiss your ... well you know the rest.

Charles.