No Mp It's Official!

[mjs0]

d4rkl0rd,
I cannot disagree with your assertion that MP is far more important than many of the more cosmetic or esoteric features that apparently have made it into the gold cut. However as you point out it is this very importance that makes it an obvious candidate for postponement to the beancounters (i.e. it is sufficiently desirable to be worth paying for separately).
My guess is that the product has been architected with the goal of MP as a clear and immutable goal. All the low level hooks to enable MP at the object-interface level in the game engine are probably there, the careful design required to expose the MP functionality correctly (i.e. the way it should play) and the amount of time it would take to test it adequately are the things that probably got traded for the tactically more lucrative SP-only first release.

SITS,
Cricket, Cricket?!? how did you know?. (You got me...I'm a British import)
Dr mjs0 says - Take two doses of reality a day and we'll soon cure you of that optimism thing.
You're right the way Firaxis handled the PR was abysmal, but I would encourage people to understand that there is a world of difference between incompetence or indifference and malice. In practical terms other than the bad blood it creates on this site and other of its ilk it will probably have very little impact on sales. Unless you are part of a tight knit community such as Apolyton or lucky enough to have immediate friends and family who share your interest in Civ you are unlikely to discover the joys of multiplayer. Unless Firaxis has something truly unexpected up their sleeves SP will be the primary source of revenue, just don't tell the beancounters until the MP support is finished.

Yin26,
Not much to say except I understand where you are coming from and agree with much of what you say. We all have the choice in a free world of voting with our wallets on the behaviour of corporations. I would have preferred Firaxis/Infogrames had been more honest wrt the MP situation but I am not strong willed enough to deny myself my CivIII fix in order to make a point. I applaud your stance as I would anyone who takes a stand on a point of personal conviction. Given that we have to wait several months for MP then if, as I suspect, it is an expansion pack (i.e. not free) I will probably wait a little longer until it hits the bargain bins.
(I am dreaming {hint hint} that Firaxis/Infogrames will allow me to play MP on a LAN with an original CD in one of the machines and the ExpPack CD in the other) {Uh oh here comes reality }

[Imran Siddiqui]

they'll also be capable under thier 'evil' publisher (whom THEY signed with)

Uh... if they didn't sign with them, they couldn't make Civ3 AT ALL, seeing that Infogrames (Hasbro before) owned the rights to Civ3.

[Lee Johnson]

Er never mind, an appropriate response would require some higher sensitivity on your part

LOL!

You know, I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the MP cause. I'm 43 years into a PBEM SMAC game, and I hope that I'll be able to do the same with Civ III eventually. But with Civ II and SMAC, I am overwhelmingly a solo player.

That said, I hope that Firaxis will stop waffling and make a definitive announcement about its MP plans soon.

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by Simpleton
I say no MP is a good sign from Firaxis. They held off on including an unfinished half-a$$ed MP version and decided to do it right! This shows a lot of class. They could have shot it out the door with a buggy uninspired MP like some companies (ie Craptivision -- CTP2) but they said no we want to make a good game!! RIGHT ON!! .
Sure it's disappointing for some not to have MP but wouldn't you rather have a good finished MP released in a couple months rather than something that doesn't work? I would.
And imagine the uproar if they had delayed Civ3 till the new year because MP wasn't done!!! Yikes! Then you would really have a MP vs SP player war.
I say thank you Firaxis for having the integrity to do it right!!!

The point is not necessarily that they aren't releasing MP with the game (at least for me) it's the fact that for months they had the chance to openly admit it and give fans time to blow off steam, etc.

Instead they sat on their hands not doing anything and pissing people off more because if the delay in nformation, etc. People feel disappointed and disillusioned by a company they had trust in to at least tlel them what was going on.

As for me, I am tired of buying a game, then having to buy an "expansion pack" 3-6 months later that finishes the game and a gold pack coming out 3-6 months after that for less than the cost of either game that has both.

As for them sending something out the door half finished, they could have sent it out the door finished and polished like Age of Kings or even Baldurs gate 2.

If they had to wait more months for the game, so what? It's only been 5 years I think a few more months for them to deliver the game the initially promised is not to long a wait.

By the way, showing class would be to admit features were cut, not to stay silent and hope that the issue would die off.

Classy = Quicksilver working on MOO3, they admit what they had to cut and why.
Not Classy = Firaxis, who accidentally leaked info on what was cut and then kept silent on the issue.

Guess who I respect more as a company (even though it is probably painful for them)? You guessed it, Quicksilver. At least they are open with the fans and don't think they know beeter than us what we like or don't like.

[Th0mas]

Mjs0 Thanks

Originally posted by mjs0
Wow, after lurking for ...
..never to return...

Mjs0

I attempted to express the same on another thread ... but you did a much better job than me.....

.... What you have outlined defines how I feel about the whole MP issue...*to all those angry people* please take a reality check before you start shouting..the situation is much more complex than you think.


... Mjs0 Thanks

[Ozymandous]

Complex situation? Maybe, but...

Adding MP may or may not be a complex issue, but the real question, IMHO, is why didn't Firaxis admit they had cut MP months ago when first asked about it?

Were they hoping to slide it in at the last minute? Release a quick patch when the game ships to add it in? What?

As many other have said, if they had admitted to cutting MP way back when people would have been upset, sure, but not as upset now as suddenly, in the 11th hour, they are told they have been lied to or if not lied to (although the advertising did say MP at one point) then deliberately given and kept under false assumptions.

Sure, it makes perfect financial and business sense to release the MP component if they felt it below quality to such a degree as to impact the quality of the rest of the game, but jeeze, they should have been more forthcoming.

[Wexu]

IIRC, they have never said MP WILL BE IN, so...

[BigLupu]

Check out the Civ3 page on bestbuy.com

http://www.bestbuy.com/software/Detail.asp?m=1023&e=11072164

Civilization III
Minimum PC System Requirements:
...
Multiplayer Internet: No
Multiplayer Network: No


for comparison:

Civilization: Call to Power
Minimum PC System Requirements:
...
Multiplayer Internet: Yes
Modem: 28.8 Kbps, Internet (TCP/IP) and LAN (IPX and TCP/IP) play supported

[Wexu]

What's the big deal? I don't understand why people are so angry because Firaxis didn't want to add ordinary crappy Civ-style multiplayer to the game.

As I've said earlier, if they'll come with new good ideas how to impelement multiplayer to Civ (WHICH IS CLEARLY SINGLEPLAYER GAME), then it'll be worth couple of bucks, BUT if they add this ordinary multiplayer to the game, then it definetly should be free.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by SITS
I think some people are missing the point here. They say that it is better to have a SP game than one that includes a half-arsed MP which, to me doesn't make sense. What Firaxis should do is produce a complete game not half of one. A complete game has both SP and MP options, both well written and that cater for both types of players. They have chosen not to at the expense of MP. They still haven't written it up on the official site, they still haven't given an explanation for the half the game missing. That is shoddy and a terrible way to treat their customers. But hey does it matter? I will still buy the game and the worst thing about that for me is that I wish I had strength of yin not to buy the game and it shames me that I don't. This has left a nasty taste in my mouth.

As to the SPers rejoicing I suggest you imagine Firaxis releasing Civ3 without SP but just MP. How would you feel then?

Certainly not in 21 months. Most complex games usually take a minimum of 3 years (many of the MMP games have taken 4 from inititial design). I am surprised that they were able to even do a SP version in 21 months, esp. with all of the artwork that they felt had to be done.

[drake]

I am surprised that they were able to even do a SP version in 21 months, esp. with all of the artwork that they felt had to be done.

Artwork? Artwork!?!??

Civ has never been about pretty graphics and all that bs. They could have spent the same time they did on "artwork" on something more worthwhile.

Goddam graphics do not make a game more fun. They never have.

[Steve Clark]

Like the AI? You know I agree with you, esp in light that such things are and should be changeable or customizable. I had posted a long time ago that they should have just given us the basic units and terrain graphics and let the mod community take over from there. That way, they could have spent more of their limited time on the AI and on MP.

I've got to dig up one of my old signatures:

"We are going to wish Firaxis had spent more resources on the AI instead of on artwork."

[drake]

Hey I'll agree to that.....I'd be impressed if the AI was a challenge. Hell I might even play a few AI games

It just seems the priorities were out of whack...graphics, smiling civ leaders and 3d graphics are nice for the kids, but they will all become invisible after people play the game a few times....

Solid gameplay, a challenging and adaptive AI AND multiplaying capability is what will make this game a long time winner for firaxis.......

[CobraA1]

They've rewritten the AI from scratch . . .

[Dugrik]

Originally posted by PrinceBimz
I for one don't have time for multiplayer. I vote no for it. When CIV1 and CIV2 was originally released it was a single player game. It don't bother me one way or another if it remains a single player game.

Neither do I. That's why I play by email (PBEM). Get yourself into four or five games at once and a turn will always be waiting for you when you get home and you get your quiet time.

I hope that Firaxis's mp patch will include PBEM capability.