No Mp It's Official!

[ColdWizard]

i'll wait for the civ3 multiplayer gold edition

Originally posted by BigBear
Everyone who is saying "If they charge for MP I won't play" are so full of it. You know damn well that you will dish out the extra cash (if you have it) as soon as they release it. And if not, you'll wait till you do have money.

not me, i think i'll buy a new car instead

[CobraA1]

Originally posted by FuFu15
This isnt 1994...to ship a game without multiplayer can only mean that they're in this for the money .

Wake up and realize that capitalism serves to those who want to maximize profits and not to the good-natured people.

Dare I ask, are the two mutually exclusive?

They could've easily released the game with about as much (or even less) customization as Civ II, but they're boasting that it's more customizable. This is a stance that I've noticed that other companies do not neccessarily share - most want to prevent people from changing their game.

But you are absolutely correct to point out that most companies are out for profit. I question, however, the choice to leave people in the dark, possibly to lose them. Maximizing profits usually means gaining customers, not losing them .

Which begs the question - why is Firaxis really doing this ? They're kinda putting themselves in a lose-lose situation here. Unless there's someting I'm not getting here . . .

If you have some evil up your sleeve, Firaxis, it will catch up to you. I do not recommend doing anything rash at this point.

[Simpleton]

I say no MP is a good sign from Firaxis. They held off on including an unfinished half-a$$ed MP version and decided to do it right! This shows a lot of class. They could have shot it out the door with a buggy uninspired MP like some companies (ie Craptivision -- CTP2) but they said no we want to make a good game!! RIGHT ON!! .
Sure it's disappointing for some not to have MP but wouldn't you rather have a good finished MP released in a couple months rather than something that doesn't work? I would.
And imagine the uproar if they had delayed Civ3 till the new year because MP wasn't done!!! Yikes! Then you would really have a MP vs SP player war.
I say thank you Firaxis for having the integrity to do it right!!!

[d4rkl0rd]

Just disappointed

I'm not going to flame anyone.

I just want to express my deep disappointment. I can see that the vast majority of people here are focused on SP, but not me. I've been playing the Civ series for about 10 years now, and it is /by far/ my favorite game of all time.

For about the last three years, the Civ2 AI has posed no challenge whatsoever. However, since that time I have played MP with a regular group of friends (who are not technically inept and can play the game without dropouts) and have vastly improved my Civ skills because of it.

I don't doubt the AI is significantly improved. I also have no doubt that I will have it beaten soundly in short order. Like Soren, I have studied AI (neural networks, genetic algorithms, etc.) at school and implemented them professionally. I'm quite familiar with the state of the art technology. It's nowhere close to presenting a lasting challenge to a mature human game player. That's why MP gaming has been the centerpiece of recreational software over the last few years.

If advertisements hadn't promised a phenomenal MP implementation, it wouldn't be so bad, but to be built up and then let down is a hard thing to take, and it will certainly color my feelings towards Firaxis and Infogrames in the future.

I admit, I will buy the SP game when it comes out. I will buy the MP game when it comes out. But I will be unhappy about it, and it /will/ affect my feelings towards purchasing any other games that those compaines produce. There's a difference between marketing a product and reaping a fair profit from it and gouging consumers. To me, MP support is as important as support for the game concept of military conquest. Without it, it's a novelty. With it, it's complete.

[Lee Johnson]

But I think Firaxis/infogames has made a big marketing error which they will regret.

I disagree, if only for the reason that the majority of the Civ market probably doesn't care about MP. The regular posters here do not constitute a representative sample of the game-buying public.

[CobraA1]

Re: Just disappointed

Have you been paying attention? They've complely rewritten the AI! Stop comparing it to Civ2! STOP!

I don't disagree with all of your points, though: It is extremely difficult to make an AI that is challenging to a human. But we're still making premature judgements.

Originally posted by d4rkl0rd
I'm not going to flame anyone.

For about the last three years, the Civ2 AI has posed no challenge whatsoever. However, since that time I have played MP with a regular group of friends (who are not technically inept and can play the game without dropouts) and have vastly improved my Civ skills because of it.

I don't doubt the AI is significantly improved. I also have no doubt that I will have it beaten soundly in short order. Like Soren, I have studied AI (neural networks, genetic algorithms, etc.) at school and implemented them professionally. I'm quite familiar with the state of the art technology. It's nowhere close to presenting a lasting challenge to a mature human game player. That's why MP gaming has been the centerpiece of recreational software over the last few years.

[Alexander's Horse]

Firaxis/Infogames manages to divide the civ community

That's a plus

If the MP isn't complete, I wonder what else is sloppy. Maybe the SP chauvinists will be disappointed too.

It seems to me this release date is all about maximising Christmas sales. They've done better than Activision by giving themselves time to patch any problems before the Christmas rush but if MP isn't in, a standard feature in most TBS games, what else isn't finished?

The "I'm alright Jack" attitude of some Sper's really makes them look bad. I guess it reflects their maturity level. Mper's have every right to be disappointed and most of them haven't slagged off SP.

[tniem]

Re: Firaxis/Infogames manages to divide the civ community

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
That's a plus

If the MP isn't complete, I wonder what else is sloppy. Maybe the SP chauvinists will be disappointed too.

AH,

That has been the point I have maintained since day one. Something smells fishy and it aint just the no MP.

It seems to me this release date is all about maximising Christmas sales. They've done better than Activision by giving themselves time to patch any problems before the Christmas rush but if MP isn't in, a standard feature in most TBS games, what else isn't finished?

Unfortunately you are probably right.

It is a shame that this is happening, even though I knew it would, I was wishing for a change of heart from Firaxis. To me this is a downgrade from SMAC and so it is not something I am taking lightly as I weigh whether to buy it or not.

[Lee Johnson]

The "I'm alright Jack" attitude of some Sper's really makes them look bad. I guess it reflects their maturity level.

Say what!?

Really, what do you expect? Mass rallies of solidarity? SP players and MP players standing shoulder to shoulder and demanding, "Give us MP or give us death"? If they don't have any use for it, how can you expect them to be passionate about it?

I said what I said because I believe that the MP market for Civ is well in the minority. I didn't say that Firaxis shouldn't bother with MP at all. It will arrive. Eventually. The whole release schedule is being driven by business considerations. Doing MP right would add months to the release date, missing the vital holiday shopping season. I feel that the sales that Infogrames will lose by not including MP in the box are far fewer than the sales they will lose by being late to market. Infogrames probably feels so, too.

I understand your disappointment, guys. I just don't happen to share it.

Has Firaxis cut corners on SP? Maybe. We'll find out soon.

-- Lee

[Zanzin]

Well, here's my 3 cents -

Having never played Civ1 or 2 MP, I'm really not that upset about the decision to not include MP in Civ3 in it's initial release. As an SP, I'd prefer the game now, rather than later.

But for all you diehard MP's out there, you have my heartfelt sympathy. This must have come as a great shock to you all

[FuFu15]

Originally posted by JellyDonut


Well obviously! If Firaxis didn't do it for the money, why isn't it free? Firaxis is a corporation. Corporations make all decisions based on which option will maximize their profits. Wake up and realize that capitalism serves to those who want to maximize profits and not to the good-natured people.

what the ****? do u think i'm a ****ing idiot? "oh civ meier are bad men because they want to make money!" no, its ****ing OBVIOUS its capitalism at its finest. WOW THANKS FOR ENLIGHTENING ME.

point is: we can still ***** and moan about it.

[FuFu15]

Originally posted by SteveJH

What company isn't???

Well on the basis of multiplayer:

Blizzard
Westwood
ID
Sierra
microsoft
Hasbro
Smilebit
Ensemble studios
EIDOS
EA
hell..even sega
(go to ebworld.com for a complete listing)

[d4rkl0rd]

Re: Re: Just disappointed

On the contrary, it is /you/ who have missed /my/ point. I have been paying close attention. My whole point was that it doesn't matter *how* much they rewrite the AI, and I am not comparing it to Civ II's AI. I was saying that the technology doesn't exist in our day and age to make a competitive AI for a game as complex as Civ I, Civ II or Civ III. Therefor it is not a premature judgement. After some short initial learning curve, the only challenge in a game like this for many of us is to play other human beings. And we have been forsaken, to a large extent.

Originally posted by CobraA1
Have you been paying attention? They've complely rewritten the AI! Stop comparing it to Civ2! STOP!

I don't disagree with all of your points, though: It is extremely difficult to make an AI that is challenging to a human. But we're still making premature judgements.

[Alexander's Horse]

It may be beyond you to know

Originally posted by Lee Johnson


Really, what do you expect? Mass rallies of solidarity? SP players and MP players standing shoulder to shoulder and demanding, "Give us MP or give us death"? If they don't have any use for it, how can you expect them to be passionate about it?

Er never mind, an appropriate response would require some higher sensitivity on your part

[KrazyHorse]

I'm with the Berliner on this one. Sucks to be an MPer, don't it?