Language - Question for Firaxis...

[Vrank Prins]

Originally posted by PGM
IMO the best way to assure no bad translations is to not translate at all.

The last version of Simcity has been translated very good into Dutch. I've seen kids of friends of mine (young teenagers) playing the game with ease just because of the translation. If they had to play it in the angloversion they would have started with tackling the languagebarrier.
I know my understanding of and skill in using anglo is pretty good, but that doesn't go for a lot of fellow dutch(wo)men. games should be as accessible to all as possible. And if a translation helps to do so, why not ?!!.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Vrank Prins
And if a translation helps to do so, why not ?!!.

Reason: a translated game looks cheap EVEN if the translation is done good. I have played games since I was 6 and have all my life hated games which were translated into Danish. I don't know how it is in other countries, but from translation into dansih all jokes dies (even as I was 6 I could understand if they were telling a joke or were angry), in danish it seems like everything is just a very sad joke, you can't tell if someone in the game is angry or feel time to celebrate...I don't know about you, but I think that kills the game

[Earthling7]

I think it's been said. For kids and such, a translated version may be in order, but an English version should ALWAYS be a possibility. This is an international world. Globalization, anyone? I am not living in my native country. And even if I can understand Dutch well enough to play a game, the enjoyment dies.

Anyways, most kids speak English at six, nowadays.

[Vrank Prins]

Originally posted by Earthling7
Anyways, most kids speak English at six, nowadays.

The only 6-year kids I've met who spoke anglo, were english and irish kids.

And when it comes to playing a translated game, the fun doesn't die for me. It's not that I don't know what I'm missiing for not playing the anglo-version, but my own language(s) (dutch/frisian) is my own language, and a good subtle translation (such as in Simcity for instance) gives a gentler feel to the game. Anglo can be so crude and common, it's ugglier than dutch.
Besides, reading Asterix & Obelix in dutch didn't make it less fun, didn't it. I've read them in english, german, french and frisian versions too. And no matter what language, the word-play (gags) when you "intercompared" / translated it, was never the same but always funny.

Rare jongens, die amerikanen !

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Vrank Prins
Besides, reading Asterix & Obelix in dutch didn't make it less fun, didn't it. I've read them in english, german, french and frisian versions too, and the word-play (gags) when you "intercompared" / translated it, was never the same but stayed funny, no matter what language.

Well I don't understand the Ducth language so I can't say if that is ok or not for games/movies, but I have read/seen Asterix & Obelix in Danish, well at first I didn't notice the difference (since the only language avaliable is danish for those comics), but after I first time saw one of the cartoons in english the danish ones became of no value to me because there where 10 times as many jokes in the english one than in the danish one.

And btw, kids at the age of 6 does partly understand the language.

[Oldenbarnevelt]

Originally posted by Vrank Prins
A few posts higher up here I've talked about a dutch CIV-site which invited people to come up with dutch translations for a dutch language patch.

Could you give us the URL of that site?

_________
Nachtmerrie: het Civ-handboek alleen verkrijgbaar in een slechte Nederlandse vertaling.

[Vrank Prins]

This is an answer about a dutch CIV-site from one dutchman to another dutchman.

Of die site nog in de lucht is weet ik niet. Ik heb um ergens vroeg dit jaar voor het laatst bezocht. Hoe de site precies heet weet ik niet meer, het staat me bij dat het iets in de trant van "the dutch civilizationsite" was. Ik heb um gewoon gevonden via de startpagina-zoekfunktie door het intikken van "civilization". Misschien dat het op die manier weer lukt um te vinden !! Jammergenoeg heb ik um niet bij mijn favorieten (i.t.t. de Apolytonsite) gezet.

En hou je stoksken recht, Oldie !!

[Earthling7]

An example of a good translation

If the site still in the air is know I not. I have it somewhere early this year last visited. What the site Is called, know I not more, it says by me that it something like "the dutch civilizationsite" was. I have it simply found via the startpage-searchfunction through the typing of "civilization". Maybe that it this way still is possible to find !! Crappily enough have I it not with my favorites (in the Apolytonsite) folder.

And how are you doing, old fart!?!

[Vrank Prins]

Re: An example of a good translation

Originally posted by Earthling7
If the site still in the air is know I not. I have it somewhere early this year last visited. What the site Is called, know I not more, it says by me that it something like "the dutch civilizationsite" was. I have it simply found via the startpage-searchfunction through the typing of "civilization". Maybe that it this way still is possible to find !! Crappily enough have I it not with my favorites (in the Apolytonsite) folder.

And how are you doing, old fart!?!

If you're trying to show how ridiculous a bad translation can be, well then you've made your point.
But what about a good translation. Inspite of what's been feared by most of you here, that's possible too.

"If the site is still in the air I don't know. I've visited it for the last time somewhere in wintertime, early this year. I can't tell you the name of the site, believe it was called "the etc.". I just found it by using the searchfunction of "(name of dutch webpage)" by feeding it "Civilization". Maybe you can find it the same way. Unfortunately I didn't add it to my folder favourites (not like the Apolytonsite)."

And the last sentense is an allusion to an old 17th century poem. Which is certainly not crude, like in the translation being given above.

[Earthling7]

The last part, something like "how's it hanging" but then pointing upwards... if I understand it correctly

[Asesino_Virtual]

I think the guys who say "i dont like my language" must be shame. U have to love your language. I speak spanish as mother tonge, and ive to say that, especially for music proposes, english and spanish (and perhaps, japanese?) are the best. But if u live, for example, in Germany, u MUST love your language coz is part of ur culture. Dont like german, well, find the good side of it. For example, the band Rammstein is a hell of a band, and sings in german, the german isnot for "love songs" but for mighty and glorious melodies!.
Its true that in most of the cases, translations sucks, thats coz i buy books or games in english, but, please, dont say "its true, swedish sucks (for a guy who actually lives there)".
So, in CIV-Terms:
Love you culture, or look how easly other civ will assimilate ur city.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual
I think the guys who say "i dont like my language" must be shame. U have to love your language. I speak spanish as mother tonge, and ive to say that, especially for music proposes, english and spanish (and perhaps, japanese?) are the best. But if u live, for example, in Germany, u MUST love your language coz is part of ur culture. Dont like german, well, find the good side of it. For example, the band Rammstein is a hell of a band, and sings in german, the german isnot for "love songs" but for mighty and glorious melodies!.
Its true that in most of the cases, translations sucks, thats coz i buy books or games in english, but, please, dont say "its true, swedish sucks (for a guy who actually lives there)".
So, in CIV-Terms:
Love you culture, or look how easly other civ will assimilate ur city.

You have NO idea how bad the danish language is for movies/games/music. What would you say if every single translation sounds like a childs talk...well that's the danish language in games, etc...It's just VERY annoying

There's nothing to be proud of by the danish language (I mean the language they speak in the cities The language we speak here in the south of the country is more cool, not some baby speak)

[Mads Raven]

English is the main language of the whole world, therefore I think that people should at least have it as their second language. E.g. in Germany and Italy all their movies in the television are synchronized into their own language (OK it is funny when you hear James Bond say "Mein name ist Bond", instead of "My name is Bond") and therefore this is one of the reasons why the Germans and Italians doesn´t learn the main language of the world: English. When I have been travelling in these countries (and in Greece too), it is difficult to understand those people properly. In France they tend not to understand you because they belive, that French should be the main language of the world. If you want to be educated - speak English! Looks at these forums about Civ 3 they are all in English because the main language is ENGLISH. Got the facts?


"Beware of the English Empire; the English people are going to rule the world again in "CIVILIZATION III""

[Mads Raven]

English is the main language of the whole world, therefore I think that people should at least have it as their second language. E.g. in Germany and Italy all their movies in the television are synchronized into their own language (OK it is funny when you hear James Bond say "Mein name ist Bond", instead of "My name is Bond") and therefore the Germans and Italians doesn´t learn the main language of the world: English. When I have been travelling in these countries (and in Greece too), it is difficult to understand those people properly. In France they tend not to understand you because they belive, that French should be the main language of the world. If you want to be educated - speak English! Looks at these forums about Civ 3 they are all in English because the main language is ENGLISH. Got the facts?


"Beware of the English Empire; the English people are going to rule the world again in "CIVILIZATION III""

[Earthling7]

Sure, it's fine being proud of your own language, if you must. But my point was that I live in the Netherlands, a country of tounge uglier than Danish, and I am NOT Dutch. It has happened that I have bought games, found that they are in Dutch, understood little of it, misundertood the rest, and the gaming experience ends up being on a bar with doing the dishes.

I come from Iceland, and I can tell you, if Lincoln or LizI start talking Icelandic to me, I'll only go megalomaniac and never live in peace... or something like that. If they speak Dutch, it will be a 6000 year long vendetta against the world. So much for the improved diplomacy...