A few words about pirate-copying Civ-3

[isaac brock]

Originally posted by KriFos
Anyways, piracy isnt always a bad thing. Lets say "Gary" download a game, "Black & White", which there was no demo of, how could he find out if he liked it or not. Gary then likes it a lot, and tells 3 of his friends that hasnt heard of it / played it yet, let them play a bit, and make them like it too... So the next day, Gary and 2 of his friends go by the nearest game-retailer and buys 1 copy of B&W each, the last friend didnt like it that much, so he didnt want to buy a copy.

Wow. thats nice that "Gary" lives in the magical land of Warezargoodland. But in reality, if Gary felt no shame in going to DL the warez, he certainly would have no problem keeping them. Then Gary likes it a lot, so he tells 3 friends about it. Then 2 like it so much Gary burns the files onto a cd for his friends, and, what the hell, why not burn a copy for his friend who doesn't like it, just in case. This is a more realistic situation. Morals don't apply to gary and friends, they keep their money for their debilitating crack addiction. But if they'd bought B&W, keeping the developer alive, they would have stayed away from the drugs and kept the economy moving. If I ever see someone named "Gary" on the street, I will not hesitate to punch him in the face. That means you too, Mr. Coleman...

[down th' pub]

Isaac, I don't often agree with you, but I do on this. It would appear there are a number of people who are unaware of the copyright laws and how they pertain to the licensing of intellectual property. Theft is theft, whether material or intellectual.

[isaac brock]

actually, I would be quite frightened by anyone who often agreed with me. the reason you don't is that i don't often care about making valid points. I argue for the sake of arguement, more to piss people off than to make a point. Except for a few threads, like this one.

[Pythagoras]

I think that it should be noted that scrupulous software developers have used piracy to their advantage. Windows has been relatively easy to pirate, and its on nearly every computer whether legal or not, but now that everyone has gotten "dependant" on Windows to do there computing they are being really stringent on XP. As if Win 95-NT-2000-Me were extended demos.

Some games have also been wise about avoiding piracy but have been still become a staple on every gamers computers. Half-Life is a prime example. The WON authentication system makes pirating very dificult, and the low price as well as the age (and hence reliability) and compatibility make Half-Life a cash cow. If people could pirate Half-Life it would have made 1/10th of the money.

IMHO Piracy is wholly dependant on how easy it is to pirate a given piece of software and to maintain the pirated copy w/patches etc, and how many features you can actually get out of the pirated copy. Companys have ingenious ways to avoid piracy and I wish theyd use them more often.

[Kc7mxo]

Warez = Theft

True

I download warez.

The truth is that I rarely buy games. But I rarely bought games before I had access to warez. The fact that I can download a perfect copy of a game doesn't really effect my purchases.

And the vast majority of games I download rarely stay on my puter for more than a couple days.

But its still stealing.

[Kc7mxo]

Computer Games that don't do what they promise = False advertising.

Ever buy a tv that didn't work when you brought it home? I have. I took the damn thing back to the store.

Or how about did you ever get a pair of shoes from your mother that you just hated. Sure, tehy look great, nice and shiny, smooth and clean. but they make your feet hurt. Whatdya do? Ya take them back.

In the modern video game industry this is not an option. Most companies expect you to first BUY their product, then decide whether you LIKE. And no takign it back if you don't.

The advantage of warez is that you can try a product before you buy it. Its not stealing the car, its taking it for a test drive.

Stealing the car is if you don't pay the dealer for the damn thing when you decide to keep it.

Man o man, I wish I'd taken black and white for a test drive before i bought the damn thing.

[CobraA1]

Originally posted by Pythagoras

If people could pirate Half-Life

They have. I've seen burned CDs of Half-Life that work perfectly. I don't know how it's done, but I've seen them floating around.

Making excuses doesn't make stealing right.

And it doesn't help Firaxis make any more money for present and future games.

So, you don't want Civ IV, do you?

Stealing the car is if you don't pay the dealer for the damn thing when you decide to keep it.

So, you go in the middle of the night, break in to a dealership's car and "test drive" it -- even if you returned it, you'd have a very difficult time explaining that to a court.

[Kc7mxo]

Good point. What if you borrow the car from a friend then?

warez has to come from somewhere.

[yin26]

The better question is: Why do car dealerships allow test drives in the first place?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Rhysie
Because if they want to play games (They must want to play them or they wouldn't bother stealing them) then they would buy them if they did not have the choice of theft. Perhaps they wouldn't buy as many as they steal, but they would buy some.

And if you are now going to say 'What if they can't afford games?' - If they can't afford to buy one or two games, then they can't afford to buy a computer which will run modern games.

You have put the horse in front of the cart. It's not because the warz sites created the demand. It's the demands that created the warz sites. Games are only one part of what they carry.

There are also many who see piracy as a backslash against certain unscrupulous software publishers.

It's not just "theft." This is a complicated issue with no clear-cut answers.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Edit: I forgot, there is an amazing system here in Germany. Anyone can pirate games without downloading them because they can be rented from video stores. Anyone who wants to pirate a game just rents it for a night (about $1), rips it onto a CD, photocopies the manual, and downloads one of the readily available CD cracks (which I use for my ligit games too since I can't be bothered with changing CDs). I don't understand how the games companies make any money in Germany....

Because unlike what the BSA wants you to believe (unfortunately some idiots do believe in what they say, or at least parrot them on this board), most people are basically honest and fair. If people have tried a game and like it, it is a lot more often than not that they will go out and buy it.

That's a very wise system the Germans have, letting the players test the games out before parting with their hard-earned cash.

I myself have been stung by rotten software before.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by down th' pub
It would appear there are a number of people who are unaware of the copyright laws and how they pertain to the licensing of intellectual property.

Copyright laws seems to have play no part in such licensing, what you are talking about is more likely to be patents. This "license" nosense with regards to software is highly ridiculous, as copyright laws are supposed to protect the consumers as well. Where is this protection if a person cannot freely return a defective product?

[Nenad]

For example, if you live in a place where it is not on sale, you cannot buy it, so I have no objection to people downloading it. Of course, when it is released where you live you should buy a valid copy.

Where I live, I've never heard of a legal copy of any software product whatsoever.

Also, if buyers are thieves, then what are pirates? Criminals of war?

Absolutely every game or any other software product is pirated, and is possible to buy it for $2 per CD, right here where I live, no matter what it is - Pro Engineer or Barby goes somewhere.

Real thieves, IMHO, are people who supplies pirates with copies. Pirates aren't innocent too, but buyers are just acting as buyer usually do - if something cost $50, but they can buy it for $2, what will they do?
If Firaxis (or any other company) isn't protecting its property, it's not my fault. Somehow, I think that we (civ fans) are more considered about them, then they about us.

[tuckson]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


You have put the horse in front of the cart. It's not because the warz sites created the demand. It's the demands that created the warz sites. Games are only one part of what they carry.

There are also many who see piracy as a backslash against certain unscrupulous software publishers.

It's not just "theft." This is a complicated issue with no clear-cut answers.

That's rubbish. If there's a demand for killers, should we all fullfil that demand? The demand and the warezsites will remain a "chicken and the egg" kind of discussion though.

However, It's still a fact that people appearantly don't want to pay for something someone else worked hard for to create it.

Very much home pc's have MS-Word as Wordprocessor installed, whereas I'm sure most of the times MS-Works would do a fine job. And not to forget the free Office suites available by now.
People want the newest and the best for nothing. They say they have the right to copy it for they once bought a version of the program.

But if a newer model of a car comes out, one can't go to the dealer with the messsage "years ago I bougth this car, so you must give me the new one for free!"

[yin26]

The better question is: Why do car dealerships allow test drives in the first place?