A few words about pirate-copying Civ-3

[Kurgan]

Sorry for the double posting, the second one is corrected.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Rhysie
Even if they wouldn't buy that specific game, they would buy some games. Some of the stuff they download as Warez is the stuff they would have bought.

Why? What makes you think that?

Originally posted by Nemo
Since there seems to be no remorse on the side of the company by taking your money, or giving you a sub-par quality product for your money, why should the people respect or pay the true thief's in this game? I think warez is not a cause, but an effect.

That's not entirely true, either. If that's true all the games on warez sites will be sh!tty ones, which is not the case.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Rasputin
I would preorder Civ3 but the damn Shipping costs make it prohibitive... Perhaps we should get one of our US friends to buy the game and then ship it personally, it is much cheaper that way....

i checked on amazon, its about 14 USD shipping for australia. i am sure you do earn much more than i do, and (given our fanatical uhm, devotion, to civ) it really does not sound 'prohibitive'. i am not sure how much less it would cost in private arrangement.

i will probably wait till i (and this is nifty) have to travel to baltimore on dec 1. i might even get a signed copy in the firaxis headquarters.....wish i could bring yin with me for some WWF action

[gremalkin]

Stealing? I guess so..

Several people have mentioned however, games that they have bought and played only once, 'cos they're crap.. What annoys me is that you cannot return these games on the basis of false advertising. I agree somewhat with Nemo here, corporations that abuse their legal muscle to rip off the individual consumer deserve to be ripped off in return..

I'm gonna pre-order however.. After all it's only £30.00..

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by CyberShy
I live in europe, thus as soon as it's released in the US I'll try to download it from a warez server.
Then I'll buy it when it'll be available overhere.

I did the same with CtP and CtP II and SMaC.

I downloaded ToT from a warez site, and reported it to Microprose, then they sent me a free copy to say thanks for informing them about the leak

That is Lame -note the capital L. You even seem to take pride in your despicable ways.

[Grim Legacy]

Heh. I can't help but smile at the rest of this futile discussion.

I'll do as I see fit. The hotheaded posts of some people here are of no influence at all.

Now I don't mean to say: "I'll get a warez version and never pay a dime, so there!". In fact, Civ3 is about the *only* game I would ever buy, personally. And I will.
I just mean to say that this debate will not be of any influence on people's actual behavior. A pirate will pirate and a buyer will buy. No need to get all hot about it: the pirate doesn't take your copy away, and the buyer doesn't give you any of his money.

[Fidel]

cybershy, you are really despicable hahahhahahhahah
that microprose move is disgusting. but something amazes me even more. ....you bought CTP AFTER playing warez version? why, oh whyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

[FrostyBoy]

Weary? Download it, try it, like it? buy it, dun like it? dun buy it. The logic is simple.

Not weary? Downloaded it? Liked it? Not going to buy it? Yes you're a theif, but you probably downloaded it because you couldn't afford it; and you have contributed to Firaxis's free advertising plan, by you, the theif, telling your friends all about Civ3, which you downloaded.


=======

Moving on, I feel for Diety here, I also remember them saying multiplayer will be a part of the release of Civ3. There was no word of an addon.

Quite literally, Diety has been robbed of his money. Firaxis is now a theif.
- Diety paid for Civ3 assuming it has multiplayer, obviously had no second thought that it wouldn't have multiplayer, because Firaxis had stated before that Civ3 would have multiplayer.
Firaxis (or maybe this is all infogrames fault) later decides not to include Multiplayer with the release of Civ3.
Diety has suddenly paid for something he didn't ask for. He will not be the only one with this problem.
Maybe Diety can be happy with just SP, it still irellevant.

[Robert]

cybershy, you are really despicable hahahhahahhahah
that microprose move is disgusting. but something amazes me even more. ....you bought CTP AFTER playing warez version? why, oh

the warez version sucked and stucked and was broken in very much ways. It worked, and what I saw got my attention. I didn't play the warez version much, pherhaps a week or something.

now I think about it again, I never dl CtP 2. Just bought that one at once (got too much money on my hands I guess since I never liked CtP anyway much eventhough I gave it a big change ) (read my column about that )

[Robert]

Oh, and I dl ToT 5 days before the official release !
I wrote a review about it and provided Apolyton with much new screenshots !

It was really cool to be the very first fan in the world to have ToT !

And of course it was even cooler to receive the game for free !
I'm still thankfull to Microprose ! (and possidente of course ! he rules !)

[Rogan Josh]

Bear in mind that it is not theft if there is no other way of getting the product, or if you would not otherwise buy it, because then Firaxis is not losing any sales from your action but gains publicity if you like the game.

For example, if you live in a place where it is not on sale, you cannot buy it, so I have no objection to people downloading it. Of course, when it is released where you live you should buy a valid copy.

I remember when the EverQuest expansion pack came out, they shipped it at reduced rates to all US customers, but wanted to charge some exhorbitant price to European customers for the shipping (so that it was costing $100 or something ridiculous). Of course I declined the offer, cancelled my EQ subscription and vowed never to buy a game from Verant again. It would have been better for Verant if I had been able to pirate the game from somewhere and continue playing, thus paying the subscription and contributing to the player community.

Edit: I forgot, there is an amazing system here in Germany. Anyone can pirate games without downloading them because they can be rented from video stores. Anyone who wants to pirate a game just rents it for a night (about $1), rips it onto a CD, photocopies the manual, and downloads one of the readily available CD cracks (which I use for my ligit games too since I can't be bothered with changing CDs). I don't understand how the games companies make any money in Germany....

[Leonidas]

Downloading and not paying for Civ3 is simply theft of intellectual and physical property. You can reason around it all you want. But it is still theft.

On the other hand, if a game has been abandoned by the publisher and it can no longer be purchased anywhere, then downloading such a game is not theft.

Let me explain. Copyright is there to protect the author of the work from having someone else steal his work or ideas. It is not there to allow an author or a company to HIDE that work from the public.

Therefore, if a company no longer publishes a game, then the concept of "fair use" comes into play. That is, you can download and play the game, because it cannot be purchased, and so long as you are not making any money from it. Most games on the underdog site would fall under this category.

The concept of "fair use" does not apply to Civ3 or the vast number of games that can still be purchased. To download Civ3 and play it is simply theft of all the hard work that went into the game.

The idea of downloading Civ3 with the intention of trying it BEFORE actually buying it, does have some merit, especially since there will be no demo. This is a gray area. So long as your intention is honourable, and intend only to test the game and try it before actually buying it, then it may be a reasonable thing to do. But to download it with the intention of NEVER buying Civ3 is just plain theft.


I want Firaxis to make a lot of money and to keep producing great games. I am still hoping for the best for Civ3's release in Oct. I am confident that it will still be a superior game despite some things that may not be in the game.

If you're not sure about Civ3, then read the reviews, watch for comments about the game in these forums, and try to buy the game from a store that will allow you to return it, if you don't like it.

[Rhysie]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Why? What makes you think that?

Because if they want to play games (They must want to play them or they wouldn't bother stealing them) then they would buy them if they did not have the choice of theft. Perhaps they wouldn't buy as many as they steal, but they would buy some.

And if you are now going to say 'What if they can't afford games?' - If they can't afford to buy one or two games, then they can't afford to buy a computer which will run modern games.

[KriFos]

Have you ever downloaded an illegal mp3? used "shareware" programs more than 30 days (or whatever timelimit they set)? Ever used a crack to use limited programs a bit longer? Ever downloaded games?

Pretty sure most (if not everyone) of you have to answer "Yes" to one or more of those questions.

Anyways, piracy isnt always a bad thing. Lets say "Gary" download a game, "Black & White", which there was no demo of, how could he find out if he liked it or not. Gary then likes it a lot, and tells 3 of his friends that hasnt heard of it / played it yet, let them play a bit, and make them like it too... So the next day, Gary and 2 of his friends go by the nearest game-retailer and buys 1 copy of B&W each, the last friend didnt like it that much, so he didnt want to buy a copy.

In this case, the piracy made Lionhead sell 3 copies of the game instead of 0.

What i mean is, many of the pirated games, apps, mp3s, etc. would never sell equal to the times they have been downloaded. I sure dont wanna buy 50 bucks for a game that i dont know if i am going to like...

[tuckson]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Nemo
Since there seems to be no remorse on the side of the company by taking your money, or giving you a sub-par quality product for your money, why should the people respect or pay the true thief's in this game? I think warez is not a cause, but an effect.[/SIZE]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That's not entirely true, either. If that's true all the games on warez sites will be sh!tty ones, which is not the case.

'bout the warez, I think it's often somthing like "the opportunity makes the thief"as a dutch saying says.

I a final version of some software (take Windows for instance, with which this happens all the times) is available for download and on warez cd's days before the official release, you can't speak of an effect anymore.

Nah... You can't speak of an effect anyway, someone has to make available that first (paid unless it's an employee of the company) warez version

Originally posted by Rasputin
Perhaps we should get one of our US friends to buy the game and then ship it personally, it is much cheaper that way....

Great idea, Too bad apolyton is not a native american site

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Bear in mind that it is not theft if there is no other way of getting the product, or if you would not otherwise buy it, because then Firaxis is not losing any sales from your action but gains publicity if you like the game.

So sneaking into a stadium for a concert of some famous band without paying for a ticket is no stealing either? Come on, gimme a break. The fact that you can get whatever you want usually is part of a deal between you (as customer) and the supplier. If you try to get the thing without committing to your part of the deal it's called stealing, no matter if the company feels it in the purse or not. Stealing nowadays is no longer just taking something away. There's legellay no difference in this between Firaxis and the shopkeeper 'round the corner of the street.

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
I forgot, there is an amazing system here in Germany. Anyone can pirate games without downloading them because they can be rented from video stores. Anyone who wants to pirate a game just rents it for a night (about $1), rips it onto a CD, photocopies the manual, and downloads one of the readily available CD cracks (which I use for my ligit games too since I can't be bothered with changing CDs). I don't understand how the games companies make any money in Germany....

Hey Neighbor, That's not only Germany, that's Holland too. Even our libraries rent the thing. Only instead of ripping it, I''ld rather use as the already mentioned "demo". No huge download times, no illegal warez copies. And legally 2 weeks time to try the thing out. Of course software like an OS is not available like this, but games and infotainment certainly are.

Originally posted by KriFos
Anyways, piracy isnt always a bad thing. Lets say "Gary" download a game, "Black & White", which there was no demo of, how could he find out if he liked it or not. Gary then likes it a lot, and tells 3 of his friends that hasnt heard of it / played it yet, let them play a bit, and make them like it too... So the next day, Gary and 2 of his friends go by the nearest game-retailer and buys 1 copy of B&W each, the last friend didnt like it that much, so he didnt want to buy a copy.

In this case, the piracy made Lionhead sell 3 copies of the game instead of 0.

Let's say Gary steal a car and tells... (get the point?)