A few words about pirate-copying Civ-3

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
The better question is: Why do car dealerships allow test drives in the first place?

but can you test drive a ferrari?

[Chronus]

This really isn't difficult, folks. When Civ III comes out, read the box. If it says that it includes multiplayer, then Firaxis is obligated to have MP in it. If it doesn't have MP, and assuming that's what you want, then don't buy it. If you preordered it, obtain a FULL refund (i.e. all the costs associated with shipping). Although I believe Firaxis should have taken more care in their statements, this does not justify pirating their software. Read the box and then make a decision to buy or not to buy.

I've simply been stunned by some of the comments in these forums of late. In this thread, we have the justification of theft. In that "Nationalism vs. Fundalism" thread we had people blaming America for pushing its culture (the buyers of American products, apparently, are incable of disbelieving an advertisement ). Some of the "ethnic culture" threads earlier last month had people praising their own culture and their "historical significance" . . . and then bashing other cultures and their "insignificance". Everyone is so worried about others following a moral code that they fail to look at themselves.

[Provost Harrison]

OK, here is the deal for me. If there is a considerable delay between the US release of civ3 and the UK release of civ3, more than a few days, then I will download the game until I purchase the game, when I will purchase it.

However I will not be willing to purchase a multiplayer version of the game per se. I am not going to spend good money for something that should have been added on in the first place. I am willing to invest in future Firaxis products, but I am not willing to be taken for a ride. However if they decide to bundle it with an expansion pack, fair enough. However in the timespan between the initial release and the MP becoming available, I doubt they would try and release two versions of the game and would allow you to download it. It would be a massive insult to do otherwise.

But briefly, I will buy the game, when available, but I will be playing civ3 from the start like the US will be doing. It may be piracy, but nor do I think it is fair to shaft another people just because of where they live!

[Rasputin]

Originally posted by LaRusso


i checked on amazon, its about 14 USD shipping for australia.

whixh is $28 Aus so makes it hlaf the cost of the game !!!

. i am not sure how much less it would cost in private arrangement.

about $6 US or $12 aus ...

[Skanky Burns]

Someone meantioned before that by buying the game, you are then supporting the developers and encouraging more of the same... "You want a Civ IV dont you??"

Yes (and ive pre-ordered the LE)

But by that same token, through buying Black and White before trying it (which would have been illegal), i have supported that developer, encouraging them to put out more similar quality game - not what i want

[yin26]

but can you test drive a ferrari?

I can in America. But you need to 'prove' you are worthy...not quite sure what that entails. So to get the demo, I'd gladly show my bank account.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
So to get the demo, I'd gladly show my bank account.

not that simple. you might have to prove that you didnt buy any ctp games

[yin26]

Hey, I think I CAN prove that! CtP 1 was a gift and CtP 2 was previewed off a friend! Does that count?

[CobraA1]

I agree that software developers should be making demo versions of their games or some other way to try before you buy.

Not having a demo still doesn't make pirating somehow right. There's other ways to find out about a game -- look at reviews, ask somebody who played it, look at screenshots and feature lists, etc etc.

I disagree with warez and similar sites - I seriously doubt that the majority of people who get games from them end up buying the games, even if they liked it -- why buy it, when you can get it for free? It ought to be more controlled than that.

[Kc7mxo]

Is pirateing games all right? No its not. its stealing.

Is speeding allright? No its ilegal and dangerous.

So um. Hmm. Who is going to cast the first stone here?

I don't like pirating software. But most of the software I pirate, I wouldn't have bought anyway. And the software I do LIKE I tend to buy.

And as to listening to reviews, hah. Who can trust them? Anyone remember the force commander debacle? That game was previewed as the best thing since sliced bread. I almost preordered it.

Admittably, they told the truth when it was reviewed, but many a site lost all my respect when that happened.

And I buy games even when I already have them to support developers who put out quality products. Even when I have perfect cd image rips. And if I don't like them, they don't stay on my hard drive very long.

Pirateing is not legal, and its not nice. But if it is actually helping me to buy games, is it wise, or unwise?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by tuckson
That's rubbish. If there's a demand for killers, should we all fullfil that demand?

Now that's real rubbish.

Originally posted by tuckson
The demand and the warezsites will remain a "chicken and the egg" kind of discussion though.

No it's not. If nobody wants warez they don't have long to live.

Originally posted by tuckson
However, It's still a fact that people appearantly don't want to pay for something someone else worked hard for to create it.

It's also a fact that some publishers produce beta quality software to force down customers' throats.

Originally posted by tuckson
Very much home pc's have MS-Word as Wordprocessor installed, whereas I'm sure most of the times MS-Works would do a fine job. And not to forget the free Office suites available by now.

When you buy a new brandname computer you are forced to pay for yet another copy of Windoze, regardless whether you need it or not.

Originally posted by tuckson
People want the newest and the best for nothing. They say they have the right to copy it for they once bought a version of the program.

Owners of some programs found out that they got screwed because they can't upgrade. They must pay in full.

Originally posted by tuckson
But if a newer model of a car comes out, one can't go to the dealer with the messsage "years ago I bougth this car, so you must give me the new one for free!"

If cars work as well as software there would be riots in the streets already.

[Rince]

Ah, funny how this discussion starts in every game forum!

Anyway. I want to urge the warez haters to stop thinking in a black and white scheme. Some actions may still be legitimate, even they are against the law.

First off: I'm 100% sure that i'll buy Civ III as soon as i can here in europe. I played all Civ titles for years and i'm currently playing CTP2 (Yes! It's actually worth playing!!!) and i'm having a great time.

Secondly: I'm probably going to download Civ III as soon as possible (maybe even before the official release date) because i don't see why i should wait up to a month longer than many other players (this has nothing to do with logistics btw).

Question: Am I a thief?

As for other games:

Trying something before you buy it is my right and if no game demo is available, i can only test it by downloading it. You can't trust reviews (Those 50$ i spent for Black and White still hurt) and you can't trust demos because they often limit the most important aspect of a game, long term playability, or simply don't exist.

I also know that many warez users just download one game after the other and never buy one.

And i don't like the way some companies simply calculate: 'estimated number of pirated copies * list price = damage done to our company'.

And to make things clear: Warez versions aren't hard to find, downloading them doesn't take THAT long and they are often easier to install than full versions.

The real cons are: Missing movies/music (not so important if you want to test, whether you like the game or not), patching is more difficult, no game manuals, tech trees and (VERY important for me) no box to add to my big collection of games.

Greetings,

Rince

[Nemo]

but can you test drive a ferrari?

yes, you can. they just do an on spot credit check to verify your credentials, or you can give them collateral (like the keys to the Jag you drove to the dealer). it's not like you drive the car without a dealer with you, anyway. (well, sometimes not, if you are THAT wealthy).
but, yes, you can test drive a ferrari.

[Executor]

Originally posted by Pythagoras
Windows has been relatively easy to pirate, and its on nearly every computer whether legal or not, but now that everyone has gotten "dependant" on Windows to do there computing they are being really stringent on XP. As if Win 95-NT-2000-Me were extended demos.

In case you're wondering, I'm running a cracked final version of Windows XP Corporate Edition right now. All of Microsoft's efforts are to no avail.

While I will probably download CivIII (mainly because it'll be available on warez sites weeks before it is in stores), I will buy the Limited Edition. If no one buys games, developers will cease making them.

[Edward]

Originally posted by Nemo

but can you test drive a ferrari?

yes, you can. they just do an on spot credit check to verify your credentials, or you can give them collateral (like the keys to the Jag you drove to the dealer). it's not like you drive the car without a dealer with you, anyway. (well, sometimes not, if you are THAT wealthy).
but, yes, you can test drive a ferrari.

Going further off topic...

Back in high school a friend of mine got a great deal on a used DeLorean (you know, "Back to the Future", stainless steel, gull-wing doors, ...). It had a terrible engine and was constantly leaking oil, but boy did it look cool! (Being only a couple inches of the ground it also handled well - 'though it did get stuck on a lot of subdivision speed bumps.)

When he drove it into a dealership they generally let him test drive any car he wanted.