Turnbased in another way?

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Dire Wolf
Sabre2th,
I agree with simultaneous turns as an option. I've played Civ since Civ 1 so I know what I like

It's difficult to build a program that can work well enough in two mode: (TBS and RTS, TBS and STE, etc.).

Simultaneous Turn Execution is not a minor change in game engine: it needs an AI that use better strategy, it must manage some more "collision" events and priority in orders.

OTOH, the human player must use smarter tactics: no way to make an easy rush to a building wonder or a max attack against a territory without the defender possibility to counterattack into the same turn.

I can't believe that Firaxis is trying to make a completely different Civ III MP, at least not on a model so smart as Simultaneous Turn Execution.

I'm afraid they are trying to patch a way to manage Diplomatic actions: they are now at the core of CivIII (trade, militar agreement, complex alliance).
You can't left an AI to take your seat during diplomatic moment in MP against others human players: in Civ 3 it'll probably mess up the game so bad that you will reset next turn

It was mentioned in CTP II as a death limit against PBEM, IIRC: "no great diplomacy, no game".

[Gramphos]

We will have Simultaneous and timed turns.
See the post bellow by Jeff.

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Timed turns and simultaneous moves will be a part of multiplayer, but in reality it doesn't significantly reduce play time (at best ~15%). Often MP games take longer anyways because of having to coordinate multiple play sessions with multiple people, not to mention disconnects and restarts. For the average customer winning a solo civ3 game by space race, on default settings, can't really happen in one sitting. MP is the same way. We've got a pretty different approach to simul-move, and features like alliance simultaneous moves will reduce game time even more. The SMAC favorite of dynamically increasing turn timers will be present as well.

While these areas of MP aren't being ignored, most new stuff will be in turn based. Civ3 is a turn based game at it's heart, and we believe it can be a great internet game without ignoring or sidestepping that fact.

Jeff

[Dire Wolf]

Where did you get that quote from (what thread?).

Joel

[0:) Innocence]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
It's difficult to build a program that can work well enough in two mode: (TBS and RTS, TBS and STE, etc.).

Simultaneous Turn Execution is not a minor change in game engine: it needs an AI that use better strategy, it must manage some more "collision" events and priority in orders.

You're absolutely correct. I wager you've already played a game using Simultaneous Execution - you certainly seen to understand the concept to perfection. I've met many people how belive TBSE is the same as RTS(!), which is utterly wrong.

OTOH, the human player must use smarter tactics: no way to make an easy rush to a building wonder or a max attack against a territory without the defender possibility to counterattack into the same turn.

Correct again. Which is why this model is more "fair" - you wont loose a battle or even a whole war simply because player A moved before you did.

I can't believe that Firaxis is trying to make a completely different Civ III MP, at least not on a model so smart as Simultaneous Turn Execution.

Certainly not. As long as noone's complaining why would they consider changing a best-seller. I think the important thing is that people know there are better alternatives to the MP model used by Civ.

You can't left an AI to take your seat during diplomatic moment in MP against others human players

Good Heavens no!!

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Dire Wolf
Where did you get that quote from (what thread?).

Joel

There is a link to the original post in the top of the quote. The thread is Timed Turn Civ III Multiplayer.

[Dire Wolf]

Obviously, adding simultaneous turns is not a trivial task - no one claimed that it is. Still, it is not unreasonable to have two modes: strict turn based and simultaneous turns. It is a matter of how well the application has been segemented into modules and how well module interdependencies have been minimized. This is where OOD comes into play. While it would require good planning and design, it is not an unattainable goal.

Joel