Two tanks, one musketmen, one knight?

[Saint Marcus]

I don't understand why there are two seperate tanks (besides the CU) and only one musketmen/knight/etc. I mean, tanks from WW2 differ less from modern tanks than 15th century spanish musketmen differ from 19th century french musketmen. I really don't understand why Firaxis has chosen to put two seperate tanks in the game (history of only 80 years or so), but just one musketmen (history 400 years) and one knight (history 1500 years). I can understand why there are two different fighters though...modern Eagles are quite different from WW1 Fokkers...but Panzer tanks don't really differ that much at all from modern Leopards. Does someone knwo why this all is done?

[Sabre2th]

There is more than one musketeer unit. There is a basic unit and the French CSU. There are also mounted CSUs that go hand and hand with knights.

[Urban Ranger]

On the contrary, modern tanks are a marked improvement over their WWII counterparts.

[Fiil]

Don't forget the conscripts, I think they are ment to be a late version of the gun armed soldier, the musketman is the early.

But I do agree we could use another infantry unit in between the two!

IIRC we don't know if there aren't any more units. I don't remember all the units from the techtree screenshoots being indentified. There might very well be another infantry unit in the game!

About the knights:
To say knights have been around for 1500 years is a bit to much (actually a lot). The first true knights I believe are around the battles against the hungarians (933). (crusaders are out, so I refer to the all as knights - don't see the difference anyway!). Everything before that time fits well under horsemen. The power of knights declined as guns became better through the late medieval period. In the 30-years war (1618-48) there knights played no vital role anymore. Anything later were mounted musketeers or dragoons dependant on speed more than armour.

Besides I believe the modern tank differs nearly as much from the (early) ww2 tanks as modern jetfighters do old planes. A ww2 tanks would stand no chance against a modern tank.

[The Mad Viking]

Remarkably, armoured men on horseback predates the adoption of the stirrup. Even if you use the stirrup, armoured men on armoured horses has been around since 400 AD. On sideboards, even longer. Knights went into decline starting with the Battle of Agincourt, where the English Longbows proved to much for the french armour; muskets finished them off for good.

While modern armour is certainly far superior to WWII, I would suggest that 5 Panzers could knock out an one modern tank.

50 Spitfires would be unlikely to shoot down a single F-18.

Sopwith Camels, Fokker Triplanes and WWI tanks! Now there's fun!

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking
While modern armour is certainly far superior to WWII, I would suggest that 5 Panzers could knock out an one modern tank

Probably not. Armament's not even close to heavy enough, and the modern tank would probably "kill" all 5 enemy tanks before they even got within their firing range.

[tishco]

panzer is it think a german ICS so that doesnt count.
but there may be 2 typres of tank anyway.
i though it went pikemen muskets conscripts marines mech infantry

[Provost Harrison]

To be fair, military technology is a lot more fast moving in the modern era than it was in the past, so hence there are as many switches in 100 years of the modern era as in 500 of the medieval...

[Col Bigspear]

The German CSU, the panzer has a counter part(not in abilitaly), the Sherman(in the hills) from what I can tell from this picture (old pic, not very good pic of Sherman, too rounded). A modern tank, the Abrams and a Bradley AFV ( APC )* For people not familiar with Military abreveations APC= Armoured personnel Carrier Aka Mech Inf. are also present. Not pictured here are the other WW2 era equipment e.g the Spitfire is in the game!. Could be some very good Scenarios for WW2 emerging.

Ok so not many old units have multiples but the last centuary was a mile stone in technology. WW1 gave us fighter aircraft and the tank, Chemical warfare (Not in game, though in SMAC), the flame-thrower, submarine warfare etc.
WW2 gave us more modern fighters (Spitfire)and ultimately the Jet Fighter, RADAR, SONAR/ ASDIC, NUCLEAR WEAPONS ,Spec forces (SAS, OSS/Navy seals), Smart Weapons (V-1, V-2) V-1 modern=Cruise Missile ( Americans captured german ones and developed them into cruise Missiles).

What I am getting at is so much has come from the last centuary, it needs to be in there, like 5 panzers taking on a Abrams, a Spitfire taking on a MiG 27? or an F-16. A Knight represents a man on horse back (Armoured). A WW2 era tank highest calibre=88mm, A modern tank calibre= 105mm Av (I think) with better Armour (thicker and small packs on the outside that explode outwars when hit detonating the round before it penertrates the Armour) this is a SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
I don't recall a knight with a few cm or mm of Armour meeting a knight donning 3inch armour!

Old pic. http://www.civfanatics.com/cgi-bin/a...s/fpsunits.jpg

[Inverse Icarus]

there arent two tanks iirc, ones a tank and ones a mech inf.

[dainbramaged13]

Originally posted by UberKruX
there arent two tanks iirc, ones a tank and ones a mech inf.

in that pic, there are four mobile units, one (2nd from top) is almost definetely mech. infantry. BUt the other three are tanks. I would guess that one's the Panzer (German special unit - KNOWN in game) and one's the regular tank (KLNOWN in game). My guess for the last is either a modern (abrahms) tank or a placeholder/alternate graphic. Also, this was one of the first screenshots, there are pribably all different graphics now.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by dainbramaged13


in that pic, there are four mobile units, one (2nd from top) is almost definetely mech. infantry. BUt the other three are tanks. I would guess that one's the Panzer (German special unit - KNOWN in game) and one's the regular tank (KLNOWN in game). My guess for the last is either a modern (abrahms) tank or a placeholder/alternate graphic. Also, this was one of the first screenshots, there are pribably all different graphics now.

The tank closest to the top is the Panzer. The one that looks as if it belongs to the purple team... or has purple paint on it, anyways.

[Rommel393]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking
While modern armour is certainly far superior to WWII, I would suggest that 5 Panzers could knock out an one modern tank.

On the contrary Viking that would be almost impossible, unless the modern tank was caught completely offguard. In WW2, possibly the best and least known about tank was the Soviet Tiger. When these were first implemented against the Germans on their operation Barbarosa there were some amazing victories by the Tiger tanks. During a Soviet retreat, 15 Tigers were providing cover fire for the retreating soldiers and other tanks. By the end of the day about 40 German Panzers lie burning. No lie.

Now where I'm getting to is this: if a tank advanced during its time (ie, Tiger) can crush another tank of its time (ie, Panzer), then what about another tank with 60 years more technology and experience behind it? The Abrams uses potent, but nasty Uranium depleted shells (I could tell you how they work but it would take a while), has a much more powerful engine, uses chemical explosives instead of gunpowder, has much thinker composite armor, and a much long range (several miles compared to the Panzers couple thousand yards). A single Abrams tank could easily kill Panzers until it runs out of shells. Thats a lot of Panzers. The two tank units are entirely needed and are a great addition to the game. I suggest you spare yourself the embarrasment and not even compare modern tanks and "ancient" tanks.

[Rommel393]

Check out these units I have never seen before. I think I saw what could be the Sioux (its not the sioux anymore is it?) special unit.

http://www.firaxis.com/games_civ3.cfm

All I can say is sweet. I like the stealth fighter.

P.S. Please tell me what the Native American civ is now.

[Executor]

Originally posted by Rommel393
On the contrary Viking that would be almost impossible, unless the modern tank was caught completely offguard. In WW2, possibly the best and least known about tank was the Soviet Tiger. When these were first implemented against the Germans on their operation Barbarosa there were some amazing victories by the Tiger tanks. During a Soviet retreat, 15 Tigers were providing cover fire for the retreating soldiers and other tanks. By the end of the day about 40 German Panzers lie burning. No lie.

Last I heard, the Tiger was a German tank. The Soviets, though, could have captured a few and used them against the Germans.