Barbarian Strength = 1/Cultural Density: The solution to ICS!

[KrazyHorse]

Communism works in real life too! The Cuban people get better food, health care and education than any of the Latin American "democracies". That being said, I'm still a socialist.

[JamesJKirk]

Well there's always the oft-pointed-to-at-least-around-here example that there hasn't been a country that has been communist in any sense of the word, other than that they dub themselves that or others do in order to demonize them.

About Rome:

Even centuries before it fell, the overwhelming bulk of its military force were "barbarians," guys from conquered cities. In Civ3 terms, these cities would have a lower culture rating, and be easily captured, and we all know what happens to units when their home city is captured, so the cultured parts of the Empire (mainly Italy and Greece) would have had major problems if most of their army disappeared. And if you look at it like that, Rome didn't get through it ALL that bad, the Byzantine Empire flourished for centuries

[Rasputin]

I thought Rome was destroyed by that DamnFarmer who became a General who became a slave who became a GLadiator who became a hero !!!!

J/K

[Inverse Icarus]

no nation has ever been a ture socialism. communism is a wicked twist of socialism, adding a dictator to the top of the society.

socialism is entirely classless.

[To_Serve_Man]

Ah jeez guys, read your Communist Manifesto and 1844 Manuscripts by Marx. You all think of communism as a government, but its really a way of life. All the 'communist' countries today are barely what Marx calls, 'Raw Communism'. There is another type, 'Ultimate Communism' which is truely (supposedly) classesless. Where humans do not worship the Money-God and the people produce things forthemselves . Like I said, it only works on paper.

Everyone totally skipped the last part of my post! I feel that there are other parts of the game that have been added (from what we all have read from previews and what not) will be strong combators against ICS. With the addition of Culture, one needs to build librarys, temples, markets, etc. One cannot just build settlers continiously. Also, a player will need that cultural border to gain resources. Without those resources, your people will be unhappy and possably revolt? A player aslo needs those resources to build units and city improvements. So this addition, to me is a much stronger, and less discriminating to ICS.

In theory this is a nice idea, i'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings. I just wouldn't like to see something like this, discriminate against the way a person is playing a computer game. We should think Black&White, there really is no real Right way to play the game, so is with Civ. With the addition of Culture, we mearly add a direction for the game to go for all players, equaly. Not a ban on all those grimmy, icky, sub-human ICS players

[TechWins]

Hey guys could you talk about communism in another thread. In fact I'll start one for you.

Polypheus to tell you the truth I like your original formula more. While your second one slow down ICS even more. With your first one it would slow down ICS and even add a slight disadvantage to bigger is always better idea.

[KrazyHorse]

What discrimination? To the majority of players it is an inherent weakness in the game that ICS is so easy, yet so powerful. We're allowed to want a game where this isn't so.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by TechWins
Polypheus to tell you the truth I like your original formula more. While your second one slow down ICS even more. With your first one it would slow down ICS and even add a slight disadvantage to bigger is always better idea.

No it doesn't. The first idea just averages out the culture points of your cities and makes you subject to attacks based on this. BAB doesn't say that your cities are undeveloped; it just says that 20 cities is better than 5.

[TechWins]

No it doesn't. The first idea just averages out the culture points of your cities and makes you subject to attacks based on this. BAB doesn't say that your cities are undeveloped; it just says that 20 cities is better than 5.

The more cities you have (no matter how good of culture) the more you're subdued to a barbarian attack with the first formula.

[KrazyHorse]

The more cities you have (no matter how good of culture) the more you're subdued to a barbarian attack with the first formula.

Your strong point isn't math, evidently. Let's say temples are worth 2 culture points and libraries are worth 1. If I've got 20 cities, each with a temple and a library, then my total culture points are 20*(2+1)=60, so my "Culture Density" is 60/20=3, so "Barbarian Strength" = 1/3. If I've only got five cities, each with a library and a temple, then my total cuture points are 5*(2+1)=15, so my "Culture Density" is 15/5=3, so "Barbarian Strength" is 1/3.

[TechWins]

Your strong point isn't math, evidently. Let's say temples are worth 2 culture points and libraries are worth 1. If I've got 20 cities, each with a temple and a library, then my total culture points are 20*(2+1)=60, so my "Culture Density" is 60/20=3, so "Barbarian Strength" = 1/3. If I've only got five cities, each with a library and a temple, then my total cuture points are 5*(2+1)=15, so my "Culture Density" is 15/5=3, so "Barbarian Strength" is 1/3.

Ok, so maybe I didn't think what I said through. Actually math is one of my strong points in school. In my math class this year I got 100 percents on all my tests except for two, where I got a 89% and a 93%. On my 2 semester finals I got a 94% and a 98%.

[KrazyHorse]

Well, mine's still bigger than yours is.

As long as we're playing this game, I just got an joint Honours Degree in math&physics from McGill U.

[To_Serve_Man]

I agree TechWins, we shouldn't talk about communism in these threads. I was just making a refrense to it.

What discrimination? The majority of players it is an inherent weakness in the game that ICS is so easy, yet so powerful. We're allowed to want a game where this isn't so.

Its not a weakness. Its a type of gameplay. What i'm trying to say, is that I dont like the idea of being punished or hindered because I dont expand my culture. The barbarians should be random, and if they happen to fall on some ICS player, then let them. Having special formulas to fiqure out whos the sucky player and then making a rule to kick him when hes down isn't my idea for fun gameplay. If the person wants to ICS, let him, there are more ways to combat ICS without making these special formulas to force players into doing something.

[KrazyHorse]

Let's say I don't like being punished because all I build are warriors. I like my luxuries at 60% and my taxes at 40% because I hate the beaker icon. Wait...Civ 2 punishes my style of play! I find it difficult to win! [/facetiousness]

Any change in the rules from Civ2 to Civ3 will necessitate a change in playing strategies. The Civ team learns by their mistakes, and they've learned the ICS lesson from Civ1 and Civ2. They're attempting to design a game that's fun and interesting for the Civ crowd and for the general public, and one of the complaints of the majority of Civvers is that ICS was too easy and too powerful. Beating ICS is possible, but doing so takes a great deal of skill. In the end, ICS is too much like the "one best way" to approach the game. Playing to win often means playing ICS, and most people don't enjoy ICSing. Why should the barbarians be random, any more than anything else in the game? Should tech discovery be random? The greater the layers of complexity in a game, the richer the strategies will be and the more replayable the game will be. This isn't a stab at any ICS players; those who sleazed were simply finding a workable strategy given the rules of the game. They're welcome to try and find the game-breaking strategy this time 'round as well.

[KrazyHorse]

TechWins, it's bad form to start an entire thread in the wrong forum. If you'll note, the discussion hasn't even close to gotten out of hand. An extraneous matter was brought up, and everyone who was interested posted just once on the subject. It went no further. If you wanted to start such a thread, it should have gone in the OT forum. If the rest of you hadn't figured out yet, don't post in TW's new Commie thread. It'll drop off the front page quickly enough.