Solution to the spearman - tank problem?

[Argos65987]

Originally posted by WackenOpenAir


you can simply compare it with iraq where a bunch of desert rats have taken several US helicopers out of the air already.

Yes, but they didn't do it by throwing a pointy stick at it.

On the other hand, I have never seen a spearmen take out a tank. I believe it could happen with the way the program is written but do not think it is that big a deal. I would curse at the computer screen and then carry on with the game.

[Pep]

IMHO motorized units shouldn't be destroyed by ancient units (including cavalry and rifleman). They could be damaged to 1hp, of course (think that motors - only ACME brand ! - can be damaged during operation, friendly fire, even a rock of an ancient catapult can damage but not destroy completely them...).

I also think that cavalry and rifleman (and newer non motorized units like infantry) shouldn't be destroyed by older units in open terrain (not including cities). In that kind of terrain, they could be damaged to 1hp, of course.

Anyway, to balance the game and to reflect the impact of wounded units in wars, I also think units with 1hp shouldn't be able to attack . This avoids a pair of tanks taking all the cities of a bronze-age civilization and so on...

I would be very happy with this little changes. They would make the game very realistic!

Another change I would make to the game is that ancient units (excluding cavalry and rifleman) shouldn't be able to take cities (even undefended) of a civilization with nationalism. I think only a pair of cops (especially the two in bad boys film ) can stop a knight unit attacking a city.

[spy14]

Originally posted by skywalker
Look at the Spearmen as "militias" that aren't necessarily equipped with spears and fighting in close formation, if you need to.

Personally, I've NEVER lost a Tank to a Spearman.

I pay for unit upgrades to get those spearmen up to militia standard (to mustket > rifle etc)

Tank - Spearman is just the most extreme example of an overall problem with the game that needs addressing. Even if it were sorted id still propose the proper battle environment being built in to the game.

Not that we're all going to agree on what "sorted" actually is

[Mr. President]

Originally posted by Argos65987


Yes, but they didn't do it by throwing a pointy stick at it.

Why don't you use your imagination? Since everything else in Civilization is more representative than literal, why not imagine that the spearmen have grenades which they throw at the helicopter? Once in a while they manage to wing them through the door and down the helicopter.

[Tall Stranger]

Agreed. I mean, come on people. Can you imagine, in the modern day, ANY civilization, no matter how backwards it is, arming guys with spears?

Just assume that the residual spearman defending that adversary's town is some crappy, poorly-trained, half-starved unit. Or, just imagine that they're French.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by spy14


I pay for unit upgrades to get those spearmen up to militia standard (to mustket > rifle etc)

Tank - Spearman is just the most extreme example of an overall problem with the game that needs addressing. Even if it were sorted id still propose the proper battle environment being built in to the game.

Not that we're all going to agree on what "sorted" actually is

No, you upgrade them to a trained, disciplined group of soldier equipped with standardized weaponry. They aren't a militia.

[Nubclear]

And I completely disagree with Tass.

Well no offense intended, however your disagreement is irrelevant.
I see it with my eyes. And I really did try to overlook it: Pretend it didn't happen at all. But it happend over and over again.
It's actually quite condesending for you, living whereever you are living, to tell me that it's not happening

Everyone saying use your other tanks.

Um: Yes, I can, but thats boring.

Can you imagine, in the modern day, ANY civilization, no matter how backwards it is, arming guys with spears?

Well if we want to be like that: Can you imagine any civilization having one person rule over it for its entire existence?

why not imagine that the spearmen have grenades which they throw at the helicopter?

They seem to have pretty good aim. Especially considering they were trained hundreds of years ago

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Crimson Sunrise
If for some unknown reason historical accuracy is important to you (while playing on Pangaea), you should recall that tanks were sometimes destroyed in World War II by partisans armed with a glass bottle full of gasoline.

Not many tanks were destroyed by Molotov cocktails, and most succesful attacks occurred during urban combat. It takes a mighty brave man to get that close to a tank, especially at ground level. Just the earthquake that a tank causes as it passes close by you is enough to give anyone second thoughts about getting closer.

In any case spearmen are not 'partisans'. Thats the whole point. If the unit has not been upgraded from spearman to partisan, it is a spearman. Improving your units to stay competitive is a big reason to maintain the tech race. If spearmen can beat tanks (even theoretically), whats the point? It shouldnt be impossible for a spearman to defend against a tank, but the chance of a guy with a stick damaging a tank are one in a thousand and the chances of killing a tank 1 in a million (and thats only by digging hidden pits).

[CerberusIV]

Conflict involves sometimes losing units. I'm more often surprised how well my forces do.

I suggest there are 2 ways to deal with this, but either of them will have to wait to Civ4.

1 - Auto upgrades whether you (or the AI) want them or not. Having some sort of upgrade units available without needing resources.

2 - Obsolete units are automatically disbanded X turns after you get the tech to build a better unit.

Depends on whether the cure is worse than the disease.

[Argos65987]

Originally posted by Crimson Sunrise


Why don't you use your imagination? Since everything else in Civilization is more representative than literal, why not imagine that the spearmen have grenades which they throw at the helicopter? Once in a while they manage to wing them through the door and down the helicopter.

Brother, I was just kidding! My second sentence said it never happened to me and I really don't have any issues with it. I just thought it sounded funny.

[Smellincoffee]

I've lost a tank to an Impi once. But my tank was down to 2HP, so that's to be expected.

[spy14]

Originally posted by Smellincoffee
I've lost a tank to an Impi once. But my tank was down to 2HP, so that's to be expected.

When did you last see a drug-fuelled psycho with a spear poke through 9 inch armour?

And to agree with the earlier point, spearmen are NOT partisans, if my spearmen are gonna get grenades or whatever, im gonna have to pay for an upgrade.

[vmxa1]

I did see a tank stopped and the driver killed on the freeway in San Diego. A cop shot him with a revolver after the tank got hung up on one of the concrete dividers. Opened the lid and fired on him.
Does that count?

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by spy14
When did you last see a drug-fuelled psycho with a spear poke through 9 inch armour?

The Italian invasion of Abyssinia in the 1930's. The locals managed to climb onto several of the Italian Fiat Ansaldo tanks and kill the crews by stabbing them with spears through the vision slits.

A one off only made possible by poorly designed tanks but even so...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I did see a tank stopped and the driver killed on the freeway in San Diego. A cop shot him with a revolver after the tank got hung up on one of the concrete dividers. Opened the lid and fired on him.
Does that count?

aaaa what?