C3C - Epic Game Units

[David Murray]

>>Marine – Cost: 12, Attack: 12, No ZOC<<

12? The marine costs 12 shields?

Or, does he cost 120 shields? I make that 20 shields more than a tank, which STILL has better stats than the new marine.

The marine should be attack 12, defence 10 to make him worth 120 shields.

[Harovan]

Re: C3C - Epic Game Units

Originally posted by JesseSmith
Netherland's Swiss Mercenary
Cost: 30, 1.4.1, Upgrade: Musketeer, Req. Feudalism

a) Musketeer, not Musketman?

b) Bad upgrade decision. Very bad. Wish all players who try the Netherlands happy micromanaging while pillaging and reconnecting saltpeter.

[WarpStorm]

I assume that is a mistake (it can't be built by the Dutch). Following up the upgrade chain the next logical upgrade would be the Rifleman.

[player1]

Re: Re: C3C - Epic Game Units

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


a) Musketeer, not Musketman?

b) Bad upgrade decision. Very bad. Wish all players who try the Netherlands happy micromanaging while pillaging and reconnecting saltpeter.

Don't foget that Musketmen have Defensive strike ability.

[Harovan]

Don't know if this makes up for twice the shield cost with the same defense (and both are defenders). Probably not. Oh well, modding time again.

[Jamski]

Defender with an attack of 2, which is used for the first strike... could be pretty handy, eh?

-Jam

[Chieftess]

Re: Re: C3C - Epic Game Units

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


a) Musketeer, not Musketman?

b) Bad upgrade decision. Very bad. Wish all players who try the Netherlands happy micromanaging while pillaging and reconnecting saltpeter.

a. Yes. It's got the same defense as a musketman already. Why have the AI waste gold on it?

b. Not really. The game looks at the Musketeer, and since the Dutch can't build it, it looks at the next unit in the upgrade path, until it reaches Rifleman. It's not too bad.

[Louis XXIV]

Which is the next buildable unit in the upgrade path, Musketmen or Riflemen?

[Stuie]

Originally posted by JesseSmith Land
• Armies –Increased combat effectiveness, greater healing capabilities, pillage w/o move cost, +1 movement, ZOC, Blitz, Radar

I think I like armies now.

Naval
• Caravel – Move: 4
• Frigate – Move: 5, Bombard: (3/1/2)
• Privateer – Move: 5, Enslavement: Privateer
• Ironclads – 5(6)/6/3, Upgrades to Destroyer
• Transport – Move: 6, Defense: 2, Capacity: 6
• Destroyer – Move: 8, Air Defense: 1, Detect Invisible
• Battleship – Move: 5, Air Defense: 2
• AEGIS Cruiser – Move: 7, Air Defense: 3, Detect Invisible, Radar
• Carrier – Move: 7, Air Defense: 1
• Nuclear Submarines – Stealth Attack, Detect Invisible
• Submarines – Stealth Attack, Detect Invisible

All still too slow for huge maps.... Oh, well; that's what the editor is there for, right?

[Harovan]

Re: Re: Re: C3C - Epic Game Units

Originally posted by Chieftess
a. Yes. It's got the same defense as a musketman already. Why have the AI waste gold on it?

Thanks, but that's not the question. The question is whether it makes sense to let the Dutch UU upgrade to the French UU, or it's only a typo. My bet is that it's the latter.

b. Not really. The game looks at the Musketeer, and since the Dutch can't build it, it looks at the next unit in the upgrade path, until it reaches Rifleman. It's not too bad.

Thanks again, I know how the upgrade mechanism works. There's basically a long upgrade path from spearman up to modern infantry units, and it's difficult to make an exception for the Swiss Mercanary. It is not possible to let it upgrade directly to Riflemen and to skip the musket units for the Dutch, because in this case either no unit could upgrade to the S.M., or muskets would be skipped for all civs. Also, the Dutch would be screwed if they had saltpeter, but no iron. I remember a good solution concept by Warpstorm. Why has it been dropped?

[Arrian]

The shield cost flexibility is a BIG change. That's great.

Jags now at 15? Ouch. I never like them anyway, though, so no biggie.

Gallics now at 40? YIKES

Is the "first strike" like a zero-range bombard shot (ala the "AU" mod?)?

The curragh is 1.1.2, 15 shields, and can carry how many units? 1 or 2? And if you're seafaring, it's actually 1.1.3, eh? So basically you've got 15 shield galleys?

to the +1 hp for WE's.

-Arrian

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Arrian
The curragh is 1.1.2, 15 shields, and can carry how many units? 1 or 2? And if you're seafaring, it's actually 1.1.3, eh? So basically you've got 15 shield galleys?

Zero. It has no transport capacity.

Curragh Naval 15 1.1.2 0 Trans Cap Alphabet

So you have a 15 shield naval scout.

[Jaybe]

Curragh Naval 15 1.1.2 0 Trans Cap Alphabet

Stuie, I interpreted that "0" as zero AA strength, implying transp cap of greater than zero.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

That's a damn shame about the Jaguar Warrior. Maybe it was overpowered... I have a feeling that additional 5 will make the unit just a little too costly...

[Dominae]

The Jaguar Warrior was IMO a fun and balanced unit in the epic (standard) game. In the MP world, however, the Jag consistently produced top finishes, regardless of player skill. Therefore I feel it was a good decision to tone it down a bit.

In SP, the Jag is now more of a scouting Warrior than an offensive tool (although that's still a possibility). This makes the Chasqui look even worse in comparison.


Dominae