ok, so is it NOW worth it?

[Gufnork]

The no. 1 reason I think Civ 3 is such a good game is because it provides a challenge. It's the only strategy game I rarely win even under the most difficult circumstances. It has some flaws, but they're needed to provide the challenge.

[Solver]

The no. 1 reason I think Civ 3 is such a good game is because it provides a challenge. It's the only strategy game I rarely win even under the most difficult circumstances.

Definitely not the only challenging civ game, though. CtP2 with Cradle is at least as challenging as Civ 3 - few people can beat it on the toughest level.

[georges bonbon]

Civ I was a good game, at the time.

Civ II was a good game, at the time.

Civ III was a good game, at the time and still is.

PTW and Conquest should have been added in the release of Civ III, it would have been cheaper.

Still, we would have waited for another two years before playing something better and new.

So the price for Civ III and the add-ons is more than acceptable.

[David Murray]

What level did you play AoE2 on? University was the only "pure research" building,

So what else does the blacksmith do that I don't know about?

Wonder victory, duh. Of several hundred games I've played, I don't think more than ten ended with a Wonder.

Now, in RoN, you have the options about when you want to attack. In AoE2, you must attack in the Feudal Age, preferrably at a time of 13 minutes or so. Fast Castle is the only other option, but only viable if you can do it really fast (under 15)... Feudal players got too good. And, those battles are the key in AoE2. Things like attrition and diplomacy in RoN do really make economy more important than an army, and make playing without any significant army an option.

Well, that's one method of play - and probably the only effective one at difficulties higher than 'Standard'. Standard might just be called Standard for a reason, though.

[Solver]

So what else does the blacksmith do that I don't know about?

Enable you a Siege Workshop and advance to the Feudal Age . Some players build a Blacksmith and delete it immediately for KLEW or SMUSH...

Well, that's one method of play - and probably the only effective one at difficulties higher than 'Standard'.

The only one effective online .

[David Murray]

Originally posted by Solver

So what else does the blacksmith do that I don't know about?

Enable you a Siege Workshop and advance to the Feudal Age . Some players build a Blacksmith and delete it immediately for KLEW or SMUSH...

Well, that's one method of play - and probably the only effective one at difficulties higher than 'Standard'.

The only one effective online .

I used to LAN with a friend. We'd give each other time to build up a new town and take it in turns to attack. It was a lot more fun than hurrying, rushing and all that.

[nato]

Originally posted by David Murray

Oh, and er, you seem to have forgotten the wonder victory option in AoE 2 ....

Wonder victory option? Worrying about difficulty level? You must have just played single-player or friendly games. Which is cool, but a different experience from more competitive stuff.

I played a lot of AOE, and I can safely say I've forgotten all about the wonder victory option; it may as well not be there. Difficulty level only matters in the number of wolves, which might kill forward builders.

AOK does have by far the biggest economic section of an RTS, compared to say sc, I agree with that. However its still basically just came down to how good your flush was.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by georges bonbon
Civ I was a good game, at the time.

Civ II was a good game, at the time.

Civ III was a good game, at the time and still is.

PTW and Conquest should have been added in the release of Civ III, it would have been cheaper.

Still, we would have waited for another two years before playing something better and new.

So the price for Civ III and the add-ons is more than acceptable.

yes, right, like they need extra money to pay for all the programmers...

me thinks I am getting a bit cynical about the cost of these games, and the fact you need so many addons....

off to the pub with me.... beer....

and leave all of their cities in ruins....

[WarpStorm]

Programmers aren't free. In fact, ones who have a clue aren't cheap. Artists, designers, and musicians have to make a living also. If they can't make a reasonable wage making games, there will be no games made (okay, there will still be a few free ones out there, but you can play them now if you are interested). The game developers that I've met weren't filthy rich.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
Programmers aren't free. In fact, ones who have a clue aren't cheap. Artists, designers, and musicians have to make a living also. If they can't make a reasonable wage making games, there will be no games made (okay, there will still be a few free ones out there, but you can play them now if you are interested). The game developers that I've met weren't filthy rich.

Ok I understand what you are saying, and this leads me to ask....

where does the money go then?

[WarpStorm]

Mostly the retailers. They take about half of the $30 dollars. (If they weren't how could Best Buy sell most games for a $10 discount the week after they ship? You know they aren't taking a loss.)

Then the publisher gets their cut. Since it was developed using their money, this is a big cut. Besides giving money to the developers to make the software they usually handle the physical production (disks, boxes, and manuals), the marketing, and the distribution of the games.

If a game sells well enough to exceed the advance money (from what I hear, over 90% don't) given by publisher, then the developer starts earning royalties. At this point, your developer starts to make a profit, assuming that he has another title in the works (with upfront money from the publisher) to pay the day to day bills.

Brian Reynolds - developer of Civ2, SMAC, RON and more
This is the entertainment industry! That means "hits" and "flops". 10% of the games on the market make 90% of the money. A flop might sell anywhere from nothing at all to, say, 10,000 copies. An average game might sell 20,000-50,000 copies. A "near hit" might sell 100,000 copies. A "hit" might sell 250,000-500,000 copies. And the holy grail of the entertainment software industry, a "smash hit", "classic", or "game of the year", can sell 1,000,000-2,000,000 copies or more. The best selling computer game of all time is as far as I know Myst, with somewhere around 5,000,000 copies sold. Multiply that by $30 a copy, remember that you may have had to pay 50-100 people's salaries for over two years to get the thing done (not to mention marketing and distributions costs, and the royalties on any technology or licenses you bought), and you will have some idea of the scale of the risks and rewards of the industry.

[Paddy]

Bugger

[georges bonbon]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot


yes, right, like they need extra money to pay for all the programmers...

me thinks I am getting a bit cynical about the cost of these games, and the fact you need so many addons....

off to the pub with me.... beer....

and leave all of their cities in ruins....

So what is a good gaming alternative?

[Paddy]

Originally posted by georges bonbon


So what is a good gaming alternative?

ohh it is all good....

I do like the game... alot actually.

I just get a little puffed at the costs.... but that is my gig...

The game is good... hahahaha

do you enjoy it?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by georges bonbon


So what is a good gaming alternative?

Galciv

MOO3

RON

Europa Universalis

SMAC


I'm not saying these are necessarily better than CIV3, but thay are good alternatives to try.