GoW FA thread 1

[Beta]

And Ghengis' response:

"Aggie has suggested we find a spot north of the front and accumulate a larger force before moving into GS territory. Then we could march south with Pikemen to defend our Horsemen. We could also ferrry units to build up the force."

[Wittlich]

His response is all well and good....but what about Feudalism?

[Beta]

My response: (exactly as you have noted Witt. )

Agreed. Good idea. There is a good landing spot which puts you on a road - it is the tile due north of the mountain where the first GS observer was killed - or 3-3-2 from Elipolis.

It is a major road used by us to transport troops south. But our workers can road the tile to the east to facilitate movement.

From there you can use the roads on the eats coast to get south. They are not in our cultural zone. Again - we can use workers to extend the road south. Or - we could give you a ROP agreement and make it even easier. You could use the road which goes down the west coasat to Dissdentville and then out to the plains. The problem there again is that we have a constant flow of troops down that road - and we would be getting in each others way. I will post this in our forum - and someone may come up with a bettr idea - for now - move down the coast and head for the spot I indicated. We have a turn to confirm.

Any thoughts on feudalism? .... Beta.

[HarryH]

We would need to (spend money) build an embassy to do an ROP. I would rather have them land S of Dissidentville in the mountains. Unless they have a LOT of troops they want to ferry across using just a few galleys the extra turns should not be a problem. I will have a post later tonight showing a plan of attack that supports this.

[Wittlich]

Actually, they can build the embassy with us and save us the funds of doing it ourselves. Then they can just offer up the ROP agreement.

[HarryH]

Here is my suggestion on where GoW should land their troops.

They can move into the fish tile to unload onto point L. The galley and the troops on L will be out of sight of GS (unless the Monsoon border expands). GoW should get a horseman and a pikemen there ASAP.

At first I was thinking that GoW played after us before GS but I think it is the other way around. If GoW plays first we could move our units out of the way the from tile A the horseman could march right into an ungarrisioned Monsoon and raze it. With GS playing first they would have a chance to get up the mountain to see what was happening or pillage the road before GoW could use it. So, forget about that.

GoW could move their units to the iron mountain and threaten Monsoon. That would force GS to move units into Monsoon. With a fresh set of Immortals in Dissidentville, or the road tile S of it, the GoW horsemen could move off the montain and pillage the road tile next to Monsoon. Our units could move into the unimproved coast tile. Chariots from Arashi could still reach our units but they would be left in the open in the pillaged tile. Pikemen could move in to protect the chariots but they would not be able to get swordsmen at our units on the lflats unless they came from somewhere behind Monsoon (and GS completes the road over those hills). This would at least give us a shot at taking Monsoon.

[argha]

This would take 4 turns!
1. Land
2. Move to Jungle
3. Move to Mt
4. grassland - Monsoon
or 3 turns
1. Land
2. Mt.
3. grassland - Monsoon
Is this what you are saying?
Either way they will see GoW horseman upon its arrival on either Mt (s and sse)

[HarryH]

Three turns.
1. Land at L.
2. Move to point.
We move our units off the mountain to an adjacent mountain. That opens the road so the GoW units can move past.
3. Move on road to mountain, down into flats, and into Monsoon.
But, as I said, because GS will have a turn to pillage the road which I would expect them to do. If they didn't they would not see GoW coming. Is it work the risk of GS pillaging the road our workers are now completing on that mountain?

Otherwise,
1. Land at L.
2. Move to iron.
GS sees GoW horsemen and moves a unit or two into Monsoon.
3. GoW horseman pillages road on grassland E of Monsoon. Our new units move from Dissidentville to the tile grassland tile next to the coast.
4. We attack Monsoon.
In between 3 and 4 GS wil have a chance to attack our units with chariots from Arashi but that will also leave those chariots on the flats where we could take them out. I expect that GS will have that road finished behind Monsoon before we can do this so they will have another path to get forces into Monsoon and attack us while staying in the city. Another .

I like the idea of getting the GoW units farther south than them landing near Elipolis. From the Elipolis area it will take them a while to move S and around Dissidentville. Another possibility is trying to figure out how to make use of them on the east coast.

[argha]

Is there a road in the jungle? I can not tell

[HarryH]

That is jungle wrapped around a mountain. The tile S of Dissidentville is actually a mountain and I believe we have already roaded it and the workers are now building a road at point B. Beta can confirm.

[argha]

Ok, I see now. with the road yes 3.

[Beta]

My message to, and the reponse from, GoW...

We unloaded the Horsemen on the mountain but could do the Monsoon thing (we tried that last time and they killed both Horsemen) but you HAVE to send us a screenshot showing the route and tiles in question.
quote:

BetaHound wrote on 01-05-2003 09:26:
Hi Ghengis - we may have troops on the poposed spot, which was mentioned earlier.

The mountain may be a good spot to hold troops until a sufficiently large force is available.

However, HarryH has come up with a plan where we may be able to steal Monsoon from them. If you land in the mountain tile SW of Dissidentville, and the following turn move east ( I don't have the map in front of me.) Then - with your two movement point horsemen you can zip in and take Monsoon. We think there is only the one road in. We can settle on it in force to protect your capture.

The other option, and the preferred one - is that you gift the city immediately to us - which opens up the road network - and therefore lets us move troops into the city right after you, and before Gs has a turn to react.

Let us know what you think of this plan. We can walk through the exact details via a chat.

Cheers .. Beta.

[HarryH]

Gifting the city will not work. We have to leave the road clear for the GoW horsemen to move in. Our closest units would be in Dissidentville which is too far (4 roaded tiles) for 1 move units to make in one turn.

Have we sent them an updated map so they can see where the road is?

[Beta]

Unless we roaded another mountain tile - and even asked RP to do this. The probelem is that the roaded mountain tile - not in ou territory - will be vacant for GS' turn. they will either seize it, or at least figure what is up and defend against it.

I am proposing that we gather sufficient troops - us, GoW, and RP - to hit them all at once. Or better yet - to let them attack and we can catch their forces outside of their cities.

[Beta]

Received and sent to GoW - Hot_Enamel. I am hoping a channel thorugh him will be more communicative than through Ghengis Farb.

His note makes interesting reading.


Hi H_E. Ms. Hound hound says hello and I am released from my duties to be able to respond to you.

To the war - lots of questions. And lots of responses, in the order you have asked.

Yes, getting RP involved is a must. We had three chats last week with RP - BigFree, NW, and Togas. They are in. We have plans set for their involvement. We can discuss further at a 3-way war council.

Lego is committing financial resources - big time. They do not think it makes sense to commit troops - given teh distances involved. There is no current sea link between Lego and the EAST coast of Estonia.

Would lego upgrade riders - not sure. We are doing our deals through a loan program of sort. It may be best if we got them involved in our chats.

Peace and GS. We have considered this - and trying to talk GS into landing on Bob. But GS seems pretty ticked with us - I smile - and I'm not sure if they would even agree to a peace. I am preety sure they are very confident they can tale us out - and their war production to-date is impressive. When we started this war - and we know because we watched the mil.advisor screen each turn - we had the largest army in the world and GS the smallest. We came close to catching them off-guard - but the observer set-up, and feudalism, and their early GA all have worked against us. I agree that they need to be taken out - if they manage to get all of Estonia - they will be unstoppable. More than just the survival of Vox is at stake here.

And just to be clear - we have had several polls, and we are committed to this war. We are a small team, and technically in last place. Our mission now is to see this war through to compeltion. This is where MP civ is sooooo different than playing against the AI.

As to discussions with GS - yes - we have had one-on-one off line discussions, with some of their ..er.. more moderate folks.They even doubt peace will sell. And as we have such a small civ to start with - we are not about to sell much of it to make peace which may be short as it is. I doubt GS will ever trust us as an ally again in this game.

We have talked to ND. They say they are on our side. But other than nice words of support - there has been lttle in the way of substantive support. Not even a deal for engineering - which is a bit frustrating. (I hope you have not made a deal with them. Given you are getting it for 30 gold - which still aggravates many Voxians. Particularly as this came on the heels of you giving 200 gold to GS for feudalism. But - given the plan regarding Chivalry - if it works - we understand your rationale for holding it back from Vox and RP.)

btw - our plan is to ask NeuD for horses. We are building a harbor - they have two sources - we could really use one or horsemen and eventually knights.

Yes - we can give you a detailed listing of our Military. It is now somewhere in excess of 40 units - the majority Immortals or warriors on their way for upgrades. (and keep in mind - GS has an army roughly the same size as ours.)

And yes - I agree - detailed plans are required.

The city and barracks plan has considerable merit. I will need to discuss it back at Vox - but it can be done. We have one existing city near the front with barracks where we do our upgrades. We will have to come up with adifferent production method - or build a new city - which we can do in short order. I will discuss with the team.

As to information - we have sent screen saves of the front to RP. We are more than willing to do that with GoW. I agree that detailed information is necessary to the success of this campaign. We will also need to consider RoP agreements, in the present situation for you to get south, or in a city swap situation so we are not held back by each others borders.

Also - regarding plans - in the recent 'replayed' turns because of the crash problems, I notiice the two horsemen did not land. The mountain is a great gathering spot - as you can no doubt see from the world map.

In conclusion - we are committed to this war. We cannot win it alone. We need allies - militarily and economically. So please share this with your team.

In the future - we will also need a good channel of communications - to discuss detailed moves and planning. I have that established now with RP - BigFree and Nuclearis Winterius III. Please let me know who will be the GoW contact. You and Panzer32?

Looking forward to hearing back from you and your team. We are glad the game is back on track - and the war resumes. Cheers - all the best.. Beta.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hot Enamel
To: Misfit Betahound Mongols
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 10:56 AM
Subject: Vox-GS war


Beta,

There has been much debate in our team about the war. GS is dangerously powerful, and our team strongly believes that they must be destroyed or severly damaged.

Many plans have been tossed around.

I have read the war chat that was done with RP, and have a personal belief, that getting RP involved is a must.

Can I ask you this....

Lego is financing your war right ? Or are they willing to commit troops ?
Would lego finance a mass upgrade of our riders if we needed ? This could be done through you with/or without their knowledge.

If you tried to declare peace, would GS come after you immediately ? I have little doubt, that you will be their first target once their planned interstructure growth is complete...but would they press on with the war ? I think they would prefer to spend the rest of the GA in peaceful infastructure expansion...but you have had discussions with them about this...what is your opinion ? What concessions would you have to give...if any ?

We currently have Lego, GoW, RP & Vox aligned against GS. Have you spoken to ND at all ? We do not know how much to trust them. Their scouts would be the ultimate pillagers.

Would you be willing to provide us with a complete detailed listing of your military ?
How our alliance differs from GS, is that they have a single defensive plan. We do not have a detailed multi-team offensive. To do this, we are going to need military strengths of our alliance allies, and jpgs of the front line. Our failed "invasion" of horsemen shows exactly what having no plan will do. BTW, we screwed up there. The apolyton blackout meant that the decision was made without it being fully discussed.

Finally, would you be willing to gift us a city with a barracks so we can do an upgrade of horsemen to riders on your continent ?

Many of our team are desperate to formulate a plan...but we simply lack military information. How much are you willing to let us know ? An unprotected game save would be perfect, but I can appreciate that this is asking way too much. jpgs of the front line would be an excellent start.

P.S. I am sending you this without checking with my team. They wont care much, however please dont take anything I have said above, as an authorised GoW plan. It is just some ideas I have been personally kicking around.

Regs

Hot_Enamel