Lego FA thread 1

[Beta]

Sent to vondrack of Lego. Looks like we are in OK shape.

Hi vondrack.

Vox thought we should makle sure we are in agreement on accounting for the various loans and payments made to Vox from Lego.

The first instalment of 200 gold, in two payments of 100, was paid back via:

i) our new era tech for 50 gold.
ii) feudalism for 150 gold.

I think this is what we agreed to.

The second installment was 240 gold, in two instalments of 120.

i) The first 120 was a grant/payment as part of the engineering/theology deal yet to be transacted.

ii) The second 120 was a loan to be paid back over 20 turns, starting at a specific date. We have recently sent Lego 50 gold as an early repayment on that 120, so if my accounting is correct, Vox still owes Lego 70 gold.

Is this how you see it?

That being said, Vox also acknowledges that we owe you a lot more than that. Your tech deals were generous during the recent past, and of course, above and beyond that, you saving our butts, well as the advertisement says ... "priceless". However, we do hope to be able to pay you back over the remainder of the game.

We will also get back to you shortly on the larger agreement.

The peace deal is in place with GS.

And the de-population of our cities on Estonia continues.

We will keep you posted of how things are going. Can you give a precise timing on when the New Voice will be in place. And BTW, the loaction you had determined on your map was perfect by us.

Take care. Greetings to ZargonX and the rest of Lego.

See you soon.

Beta.

ps - I think we also owe you a world map - or do you have our latest?

[Beta]

Lego's response.

RE: Accounting
Hi, Beta!

The accounting is precisely as we see it. Only 70 more gold to go (no hurry - 70g will not save the day for us and you will need some cash reserve to survive your Big Hop... with few cities and many units in the beginning, you are likely to run a deficite budget for some time, so make sure you have some savings). BTW, not sure what your plans are, but I would suggest disbanding most of your military units in order to speed up or better yet, increase settler production... every extra settler counts, while extra military (over 1 unit per city) will be pretty much useless. Barbarians can be handled by anything with defense over 1... and we will publicly announce that your settlements on Legos Minor are under our protection, so anyone attacking you there will have to deal with our military in the first place.

And yes, you do owe us your world map... though it may be just a formality, as we are now close to striking a complex deal with GS, which includes their WM - which will probably be very similar to yours.

Timeline for The New Voice:

250 BC (T116): settler+worker+escort 3 tiles from the destination
225 BC (T117): settler+worker+escort 2 tiles from the destination
200 BC (T118): settler+worker+escort 1 tile from the destination
175 BC (T119): settler+worker+escort arrive at the destination site
150 BC (T120): The New Voice founded, worker joins it, city immediately gifted to you

So, you should receive the city in 125 BC (T121).

I just hope there will be no delay - barbs COULD delay it slightly, if things go wrong. The city WILL be founded in 150 BC, no matter what. The question is whether its immediate vicinity will be barb-free for that 1 turn we will need to safely hand the control of the city to you.

If the delay is a problem, there is always the possibility of letting barbs sack the city. Up to you to decide.

Cheers,
Radek

[Rhothaerill]

Question for those of you who have been here the whole time. Do you believe it would be at all possible to get the Legos map? I'm guessing that Legos Minor is the island to the northwest of Legos where the horse and the desert are. If there is any way we can see the map soon then we can start plotting out our new city layout before we even get there. I know it's only a few turns left to the Voxodus, but then we have to explore the island a bit before deciding on a good course of city placement.

[Beta]

We have a map already. Will send it now.

It also has vondrack's suggested city sites.

[Jon Miller]

cool

Jon Miler

[Rhothaerill]

Oh, okay. I didn't see it on the savegame you sent. Thanks Beta.

[Konquest02]

I think the city placement proposed by vondrack was ideal: many cities on the coast, well positionned for corruption fighting. I think that (almost) nothing is to change on this plan.

--Kon--

[Rhothaerill]

Just took a look at the files Beta sent me and it looks good to me too. That's probably about what I'd do for city placement. Certainly not an ideal location (all those mountains and no way to irrigate for a while), but it's better than the alternative.

[Beta]

Just received from Lego. I advised that a few turns of delay should not be a problem - as we still have some winding up to do. And the delayed timing was preferable to having the city sacked and losing the pop point.

Are you guys OK with that? I am going to try and map out in more detail the wind-up and will post it in the evac plan thread.


The New Voice delayed
Hi, Beta!

No good news this time... despite Howard (our sword escort) killing four or five barbs while under way to The New Voice site, things are not looking good. We are 99% sure that if we founded the city on the next turn (as planned), it would be sacked by barbarians. There are too many of them around and Howard will not be able to handle all of them.

Barbs sacking the city could kill the extra pop point we are bringing along with the settler (a worker named 'Beta' ) to allow the spear poprush, therefore we would prefer delaying the city foundation by three turns. Two more escort units (medinfs) are landing on the next turn (this has been the fastest we were able to get them there) - within three turns, they should be able to cover the whole of The New Voice site perimeter against barbarians for those two or three turns we will need to hand the city safely over to you.

Is this acceptable for you?

The city would not be sacked on the very turn it would be founded... but one turn later, after becoming 'yours'. So it would be your treasury getting plundered... if you are really pressed for time, we could try proceeding as planned, knowingly going for the risk (well, it is much more of a certainty than risk).

Please, advise. (and if needed, notify GS, please)

Cheers,
Radek aka vondrack
the new FAM of Legoland
yes, there have been... ahem... 'elections'... and I felt like taking a different job...

[Beta]

And here was my response. I went on to tell him that if we did have an issue with the timing - and wanted the city now - we would get back to them shortly.

Yikes. You mean the natives aren't friendly!!?? Well, to hell with this. This deal is off.

Er - just a moment - maybe I spoke too soon. hehe

Hi Radek. I think the delay would be more than OK. We still need to wind down the cities - and it looks like a 4-6 turn horizon before we would be set to go. I can be more specific when I revisist the save and do some calcs. Had to play it in a hurry this morning. We are also working out the best way to do the transport - and we need to find out from GS if they mind us disbanding the capitol - as ione of Harry's scenarios requires.

So, the later timing would work fine, and the extra pop point would be useful. It will allow us to keep our 5 city set-up going for a bit longer

[Beta]

Lego had inquired about the treaty, so I revisited the thread, added some comments, and sent this response:

Greetings vondrack.

My apologies for not getting this back to you sooner, Agreement was reached very quickly within Vox, but discussion on the timing of the jump had overtaken the thread, and I never got back to it.

We Voxians are very much on-side with this proposal. In fact - we find the tech arrangement quite generous. Our plan is to max out on commerce and libraries to make us as quickly as possible a worthy partner in such a deal.

I think the wording of #8, which is a bit awkard right now - should read: V.C. agrees to no trading of maps... . As it stands now we could agree to 'prefer' not to do it, but still do it against our preference. Not that we would use such a loop-hole, but the revised wording would make it clear. Maybe we should add, "unless approved by Lego" in case there is ever a good reason that the alliance may want to trade it.

The only area of minor discussion was Clause #4, about Vox not declaring war on another country without your approval. It hurts our pride a bit - as a certain autonomy is lost. But - if I was in your shoes - and knowing our history , I would demand the same. You do not want to be dragged into Immortal Beloved 2 against your will. Also, as our commitment now is to fully support Lego economically, politically, and if need be militarily, this clause, in reality, causes us no problems.

To put it another way... after the failed war against GS, our objective in this game has been re-defined. We simply want to be second. It beats going out early.

So - on a more official note - I Beta, on behalf of Vox Controli, agree to the following treaty, in this the year 190 BC.


Treaty of The New Voice

1) Legoland agrees to give Legos Minor to Vox Controli as a new homeland. Legos Minor is defined as all land beyond the isthmus of Invoice/Benelux (see the map).
No Vox Controli settlement may be founded South of the site marked as "Southernmost Vox Controli City on Legos Minor". Considering the land shown on the map attached, Legoland will settle no more sites than Port Hammer and Invoice/Benelux.

(The map did not show up - I will forward it viea PM.)


2) Legoland will, at its earliest convenience, found and gift a 2-pop city on Legos Minor to Vox Controli, in a location specified by Vox Controli. Legoland will make reasonable efforts to protect this city from barbarians until Vox Controli is able to protect it with its own forces.

3) Neither Legoland, nor Vox Cotroli will ever accept a city trying to defect (aka "culture flip") to the other party.

4) Vox Controli will never declare war on another civ without Legoland's approval and consent. Legoland will never declare war on Vox Controli, except for fake/staged wars as needed for GA triggering, combat training ("GL factory") or worker exchange. Fake wars would be declared with the approval of both parties involved.

5) All techs researched by either Legoland or Vox Controli must be shared with the other team upon request. Any techs requested under this clause are subject to a permanent Non-Disclosure Agreement; the team receiving the tech may not trade/gift/resell it to anyone else without the giving team's permission. This does NOT apply to techs acquired by trading with third parties.

6) If Legoland lacks a strategic resource Vox Controli has, Vox is obliged to provide it to Lego upon request. If Legoland has a surplus of a strategic resource Vox Controli lacks, Legoland is obliged to provide it to Vox Controli upon request. In both cases, a reasonable balance may be requested in exchange.

7) As soon as reasonably possible, Vox agree to build a warrior to keep in reserve for triggering Legoland's GA (a sacrifice to a Merc).

8) Vox Controli agrees to no trading of maps of Legos Minor to other civs, unless specifically approved by Lego.

[Beta]

Sent this with the 130bc save:

Greetings Legolanders!

Status update. We have two scenarios - one that wraps up in 4 turns - one that gets it done in 3. We prefer the former.

That gives us 8 settlers and 12 workers, and a very small army - somewhat humbling for the nation which once had the largest military.

2 of the settlers are in galleys and still some 8-10 turns from landing at last count.

Engineering in 4 turns.

Does our 4 turn schedule fit with the founding of the new city?

Will keep you apprised of events from our end.

Cheers ... Beta,

[Beta]

Received from Lego. Some interesting news.

RE: Agreement with GS and Timing
Hi, Beta!

The "timing" of The New Voice is a non-issue now.

We have founded the city on the last turn and "sent" it as 'accepted' over to you. You will become its owner as soon as the save reaches you. Be so kind and poprush the spear defender ASAP (this turn, if possible, or the next turn at latest). We have three guardians there (Howard NW of the city, Dycedarg covering the NE flank, and Gaul covering the SW flank), but your own spear IN the city will be THE way to ensure the city does not get sacked.

And BTW... we have traded for the WM of GS last turn. Honestly, I think you actually had VERY little chance to win. They are quite a monster, really. 14 cities in their southern area (S of Dissidentville), which is at least twice yours (N of Elipolis), almost every single tile fully improved. At this moment, it's extremely hard to match their economic power with clever military tactics only (though they don't have that much of a "growth potential", I think). Do not feel bad for your oversight - it might have speeded your defeat a bit, but I now do not believe it "changed the history" significantly.

Take care,
Radek

[Rhothaerill]

No wonder GS wanted our cities then.

It doesn't really surprise me that their civ is fully improved. One of the tenets that a lot of strat forum posters go by is that no matter if you are playing a peaceful game or a warlike game, good tile improvement is key.

[HarryH]

We should approach lego about my plan for Democracy (see this thread) and see what they think of it. Since we will have Engineering in a few turns, we will need to get Theology from them soon.