Lego FA thread 1

[Rhothaerill]

We should probably talk to them about when they want to do this or even IF they want to do this before we go and build that warrior. If they're about to enter the war on Bob in a few turns they may not even need us to build a warrior for them. If they're not ready to enter the war for a while, but want to build up first with a GA then by all means we can build it for them.

[Beta]

Yes - good point Rhoth. I will ask Lego.

[HarryH]

Sent to Lego in email with the save:

Sent a trade deal with the 70 gold we owe plus a gift of our territory map.

[Beta]

As indicated in the GS thread - forwarded GS' note to vondrack of Lego. Here is his reply. Oh and BTW, I also asked him about the proposed city site as well. And. also note his questions at the bottom. I will respond to those. (this was an e-mail I received, cut and pasted into here and edited - so sorry of it looks wonky)

Hi, Beta!

Beta asked "Hi vondrack. Remember the map attached to our Legos Minor settlement agreement. Do you have a copy of it? It was the ones with the lines on it. I have the city site plan, but not the agreement map. The reason I ask is that Witt has proposed settling on the isthmus to the south of Memory - near the fish tile. From what I can see - Port Hammer is scheduled to go there. But if you are not going to use this piece of real estate, we would be keen on reaching a deal for it."

vondrack's response - I am sorry but you are 100% correct about Port Hammer. It is planned to be on the isthmus S-S-S-SE of Memory and it's considered to be strategically important (not at this very moment, but long-term - it should be founded quite soon, within ~20 turns). It shall be THE naval base supporting a planned three-tile "naval wall" sealing the access to the Bay of Panama.

Beta asked - "Also- received a message from Velociryx of GS, wanting to talk. I will relay it to you. We - you and I - should have discuss how we deal with it. We may be able to parlay it into some sort of advantage - ie we cozy up with GS. They are basically proposing we get involved in the conflict - but on 'you know who's' side. "

vondrack's response - Now, this is tricky... I have been mulling this over for almost a full day (that's why I did not respond immediately), pondering about what could be gained by not simply turning the idea down. One thing that is clear from Vel's message is that GS sorta learnt from their past diplomatic mistakes and are now doing their best to get the world aid their cause. We/Lego told them we would not support them, so they're trying to ally with you... which confirms something else at the same time - they have no idea about our/Lego involvement so far. Which is great. (Our first troops land on Bob on the upcoming turn, with more en route...). It also shows they are not all that sure about winning this war as they pose in the public forum. Good.

But... I somehow fail to see how to "accept" (quotes intentional, as it is obvious a true acceptance would be directly crossing our/Lego plans in the Great Bobian War) without falling into 'yet another Voxian treachery' pitfall (I am sure that if you "betray" GS one more time, they are going to hire RL killers to hunt you all down ). And - if there is anything at all we could gain by you pretending being in the same bed with them... I seriously doubt they would share their military plans with you even if cooperating.

So, I am sorta undecided... as for myself, I would probably suggest you politely turn the proposal down (and I am quite sure other Legos would want the same). I may try talking to GoW/ND, but I seriously doubt their PoV would be different.

Here is a point you can/should use in your response to Vel (I am not mentioning things you know best - like the strength of your army and navy etc.): Lego will naturally withdraw its protection, if you attack another nation. The protection was/is meant against others trying to do harm to you. Certainly not as an eternal bond forcing us to go to a war you might come up with. Actually, as we are 'neutral' at best in this war (that's what GS believes, I think), we would quite likely be very angry at you if you mess our relations with Bobians (and there definitely is a very strong bond between us and you, so anything you do WOULD affect our own relations with GoW & ND).

One thing: whatever your response to GS is, make sure they cannot get a hint of our/Lego involvement, please. It seems obvious to me they have no idea so far - and that's how it should remain for as long as possible.

OTOH, I am all for you maintaining friendly relations with GS. Trade techs. Talk. All kinds of 'peaceful cooperation' are fine. It is very likely you might become THE neutral party acting as the intermediator for tech deals and things like that once Lego gets directly involved in the war...

BTW, a couple of questions:

a) how many turns to Printing Press?
b) is your "intelligence contract" with GoW active?
c) how many turns before you complete your first harbour?
d) any techs you might need? (Edu, Astro available)

I am asking about a harbour because once you have one, we will be able to send you dyes. Probably nothing major, but it will not hurt either.

Take care,
vondrack

[Beta]

PM from vondrack (parts of my original message to him in quotes. )(and btw - on b) whether our investigative contract with GoW was still active - I gave him the facts on what we have done to date, and on d) regarding whether we wanted the techs in question - I said we would get back to him.)

RE: GS
Hi, Beta!

a) 28 turns to printing press as of last turn. We are researching it using a scientist out of Panama Vox. This enables us to maximize gold production to rush city improvements. It is a slow process with mostly size one cities. Getting there though. Does the 28 turns to completion cause problems?

No problems at all, just wanted to know where you were. With our Astro-for-Banking deal with GS cancelled at thier request, we're planning our future research strategy now. It seems quite viable to leave the upper techtree branch (Banking, Economy, Democracy) to you, while taking the lower branche route (Chemistry, Physics, Metallurgy... etc.) ourselves. But that's many, many turns from now.

c) Harbours - well at straight construction times -22 turns. But we expect to rush a couple in the near term. Not quite sure of the exact timing. Maybe 10-12 turns out. Thanks for the offer of a lux. GoW owes us some 60 turns of a luxury as well.

Asked because of a current issue we have here... RPers came begging... and we would like to give them at least a token help to maintain the cover of "neutrality" for as long as possible. We told them we might be able to give them our last dyes (for free) for until you finish up your first harbour, pretending we promised it to you. Just wanted to know what the timeframe is. I can see that I do not need to worry about this - they'll most probably lose their trade link to us before you finish your first harbour.

Now, as to the GS thing, Harry had a devious idea (see - it is not always me ):

The idea is just awesome! If GS was willing to give you something valuable for "getting involved", it might be worth trying... if you are ready to lose even the last bits of your credibility in the GS folks' eyes.

I suggest you try to find out what kind of an incentive GS would be willing to give you for attacking GoW. I will mention the issue tomorrow at the regular allies' chat - and see what their reaction would be. And I will give it some more thinking in the meanwhile.

Take care,
vondrack

[HarryH]

Re techs: Atro would be nice. Our galleys are exploring. If we don't use them to transfer troops to GoW Island then Astro would allow them to explore a little farther out.

Re GS deal: Glad he thinks its awesome. We need to negotiate with GS to find out what they are offering and put a couple of plans together before we decide what to do. Maybe I should do it. With me being unavailable Friday evenings through Sunday night it will slow things down a bit, but I am willing to discuss it with GS.

[Beta]

From Lego:

the staged conflict on Baby Bob
Hi, Beta & all Voxians!

We have been discussing the whole thing in Lego and I have briefly brought the issue up today at the regular Thursday alliance chat with Darekill and Aggie. We/Lego currently lean towards letting you do whatever you wish, as long as it does not interfere with our (alliance) plans.

You know where we stand, you know who our allies are, and who is our enemy. You know what kind of reactions this and that can provoke... So - talk to GS, talk to GoW, do whatever you feel is best. We want you to have fun with the game - we do not want you to be a mere vassal state, just blindly doing what we tell you. We would prefer you being our "little brother" we watch over. So - we'd like to you to have as much freedom and autonomy as reasonably possible.

This surprise proposal and your possible pretended involvement in the war sounds exactly like a thing you can handle on your own, without any "directions" or "suggestions" from Lego. Surely, we would not be happy to have our plans messed by your actions - but if you keep us informed, that should not be the case.

Cheers,
vondrack

[Wittlich]

Interesting. Now I guess we need to contact GoW and see if they're willing to go along with the plan...

[Rhothaerill]

It's good to know that if we do move forward with this plan (assuming everything falls in place) that we have Lego's tacit approval. Vox wouldn't exist without them. I'm still of the opinion that we do our best to help them win the game since we probably won't.

[Wittlich]

I feel the same way Rhoth.

[Beta]

Me too.

[HarryH]

Before we contact GoW I want to find out what GS is offering, then put together options to discuss and vote on. If we decide to go with the GS plan, we do not want to tip our hand to GoW by contacting them. So lets look at our options first.

[Beta]

However, I think vondrack has raised the matter with GoW already in a chat. But still, let's find out what GS is offering.

As discussed earlier - Harry - do you want to take the lead? Velociryx is awaiting our response. See my latest message to him in the GS thread.

[HarryH]

I will contact Vel. I am getting ready to leave for the weekend so if he wants to talk to someone before Monday he will need to contact someone else.

[Beta]

I am here this weekend - I will let Vel know.